Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community
Old 08-12-2019, 09:56 AM   #3501
Toonage
Taking a while to get to 5000
 
Toonage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayswin View Post
Why is that relevant, though? That was three years ago and the Ducks were a strong playoff team. Who knows what they're thinking now.
I'm saying they aren't likely to deal with an in division team without gouging.
Toonage is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Toonage For This Useful Post:
Old 08-12-2019, 10:25 AM   #3502
The Cobra
First Line Centre
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Brew View Post
But thatís a purely fabricated scenario. Maybe theyíre offering a 3rd now but once you sign Tkachuk and are over the cap, theyíre offering a 4th and asking you to retain. We donít know. I just donít understand how showing all your cards will give you better offers.
The Flames cards are already pretty well known.

Everyone knows Tkachuk needs to be signed and will make pretty good coin.

Everyone knows that Calgary wants to/needs to shed some cap.

Teams are already approaching Calgary like they "are over the cap", whether Tkachuk signs now or next month.
The Cobra is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to The Cobra For This Useful Post:
Old 08-12-2019, 10:52 AM   #3503
Flash Walken
Franchise Player
 
Flash Walken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo View Post
First off thanks for replaying with more then "lol" or "what"

I didn't say midseason. Didn't hint at a long time with 21 players, didn't suggest it was a season starting plan.

Just said you don't wait the Tkachuk camp to do a cap deal first if you like the deal.

The 21 man roster is a last resort, but it is an option that can be seen by the hockey world the second Tkachuk signs removing the leverage. If there isn't any leverage as you say, doesn't change the fact that signing Tkachuk 2nd isn't a necessity.
Do you see how all of your assumptions here are favourable to the organization?

Right now, the Flames have 7.75 million on a 21 man roster. So to assume there is a 'cap contract' out there for Tkachuk that is less than 7 million is an assumption not based in reality. I don't think there is any scenario at all that sees Tkachuk with a cap hit of less than 7 no matter the years, in which case you are trying to then get Mangiapane at league minimum which I also don't think is going to happen, and having 5 thousand bucks in cushion, WITH the 21 man roster.

This idea that Tkachuk will just sign a team friendly deal that helps them avoid having to make a difficult decision is...well, let's call it rose coloured.

Like I said, it's a math problem.

Given a scenario of Tkachuk at 7 million, you're talking 755k total to sign Mangiapane and start the season. With a 21 man roster. Without improving the team from last year.

I have yet to see a breakdown with numbers on how the Flames can field a competitive roster for this season without subtracting 2-3 million.

IMO you're trying to move Frolik for basically anything you can at this point even if it means attaching your own pick to him.

With Brodie you're looking to make a 'hockey trade', but unfortunately you need other teams to dance on that equation and basically every team you're looking to trade with wants to reduce their cap figure.

So the trade scenario is paying essentially whatever price you can to offload Frolik without any salary retention or coming back, and using that new-found cap space to take on a million bucks in a 'Brodie for Player X' trade scenario.

And then maybe you waive Janko at the start of the season and hope he doesn't get claimed.

Less than ideal.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoJetsGo View Post
How does the number of playoff games the Bruins won *this last season* have anything to do with their number of draft picks in the last three calendar years?
Flash Walken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2019, 10:54 AM   #3504
Robbob
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Cobra;7181244[B
]The Flames cards are already pretty well known[/B].

Everyone knows Tkachuk needs to be signed and will make pretty good coin.

Everyone knows that Calgary wants to/needs to shed some cap.

Teams are already approaching Calgary like they "are over the cap", whether Tkachuk signs now or next month.
I think this is pretty much it, and it isn't just the Flames. Every GM has a general to in-depth sense of what position every team is in. That is part of their job.

What gets things moving are deadlines. Whether a player has an arb, start of the season, or the trade deadline it gets done because there is a line in the sand to get it done.

Right now there is no urgency till the start of the season. GMs can predatory if they see another GM paint themselves into a corner, so the key is leaving yourself flexible. Worst case scenario, the Flames can sign Tkachuk and run with a more limited roster size. It at least gets that past that line in the sand at the start of the season. Gms will still play chicken with the Flames, but it will give them a longer runway to play with.
Robbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2019, 11:55 AM   #3505
Red
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Exp:
Default

Why are people talking about GMs screwing one another? This isn't like selling a Lada on Kijiji where u pounce on the vulnerable because you will never see them again. Any shady GM woild be out of the league in no time.

This is a very small group of individuals, most with years of history between them. They will not make predatory offers for a guy like a Frolik. They won't jeopardize their relationships over a draft pick or few $$$. It's not their money and they all try to coexist within a tight community.

Back on topic. Ship Czarnik out, doesn't solve all issues but it helps. Czarnik, who couldn't hold a spot on the team should be easy to replace.
Red is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Red For This Useful Post:
Old 08-12-2019, 12:09 PM   #3506
The Original FFIV
First Line Centre
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Exp:
Default

well everyone said to wait until injuries happened. Didn't think it would be Valamaki but here we are. Doesn't look like TJ is going to move anytime soon.
The Original FFIV is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to The Original FFIV For This Useful Post:
Old 08-12-2019, 12:31 PM   #3507
Mass_nerder
Franchise Player
 
Mass_nerder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

Now we can focus all unrealistic trade proposals around Frolik exclusively!
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by snipetype View Post
k im just not going to respond to your #### anymore because i have better things to do like #### my model girlfriend rather then try to convince people like you of commonly held hockey knowledge.
Mass_nerder is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 11 Users Say Thank You to Mass_nerder For This Useful Post:
Old 08-12-2019, 12:32 PM   #3508
Flash Walken
Franchise Player
 
Flash Walken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mass_nerder View Post
Now we can focus all unrealistic trade proposals around Frolik exclusively!
I wonder if the leverage has increased or decreased around this deal.

Tough call.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoJetsGo View Post
How does the number of playoff games the Bruins won *this last season* have anything to do with their number of draft picks in the last three calendar years?
Flash Walken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2019, 01:04 PM   #3509
Bingo
Owner
 
Bingo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Brew View Post
But thatís a purely fabricated scenario. Maybe theyíre offering a 3rd now but once you sign Tkachuk and are over the cap, theyíre offering a 4th and asking you to retain. We donít know. I just donít understand how showing all your cards will give you better offers.
Of course its fabricated.

It's not showing all your cards, it's removing a perceived "need" or impediment when dealing with the opposing GMs.
Bingo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2019, 01:10 PM   #3510
Bingo
Owner
 
Bingo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash Walken View Post

Given a scenario of Tkachuk at 7 million, you're talking 755k total to sign Mangiapane and start the season. With a 21 man roster. Without improving the team from last year.

I have yet to see a breakdown with numbers on how the Flames can field a competitive roster for this season without subtracting 2-3 million.

Less than ideal.
I've said it many many times.

This isn't the season plan. This isn't the start the season plan. This is just saying they don't have to find the cap space before they sign Tkachuk. It's just order of oppositions.
Bingo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2019, 01:15 PM   #3511
Heavy Jack
Franchise Player
 
Heavy Jack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: In the studio
Exp:
Default

At this point I think retaining some of Frolik’s salary to open up 2 to 3 mill for signing Tkachuk and Mangiapane is the likely scenario now. I think it also almost guarantees the Flames are gonna be big time players at the deadline if they are in a similar position as last year.
Heavy Jack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2019, 02:38 PM   #3512
Strange Brew
Franchise Player
 
Strange Brew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo View Post
Of course its fabricated.

It's not showing all your cards, it's removing a perceived "need" or impediment when dealing with the opposing GMs.
Youíre not removing a perceived need or impediment at all. I think Iíve just lost track of what it is youíre proposing or trying to defend. All Iím saying is the notion of a 21 man roster is a bad one and in no way helps Trelivingís bargaining position should he find himself in that situation in order to get under the cap.

I certainly hope it doesnít come to that.
Strange Brew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2019, 02:41 PM   #3513
Strange Brew
Franchise Player
 
Strange Brew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo View Post
I've said it many many times.

This isn't the season plan. This isn't the start the season plan. This is just saying they don't have to find the cap space before they sign Tkachuk. It's just order of oppositions.
Of course they donít need to have cap space in the off season. No one is saying that from what I have read.

But if youíre bringing up a 21 man roster, how can that not be in reference to the season? If not, what are you talking about?
Strange Brew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2019, 05:36 PM   #3514
Bingo
Owner
 
Bingo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

Didn't this start out as they need to get cap space before they sign Tkachuk? That's what I was saying.

Frankly shocked how many times I've had to repeat myself.

Summer ...
Bingo is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Bingo For This Useful Post:
Old 08-12-2019, 06:09 PM   #3515
Flash Walken
Franchise Player
 
Flash Walken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Exp:
Default

It started out as me making a joke about the Flames Swimming in Capspace and then another guy responding to that by saying that they did NOT need to get cap space before they sign tkachuk.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoJetsGo View Post
How does the number of playoff games the Bruins won *this last season* have anything to do with their number of draft picks in the last three calendar years?
Flash Walken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2019, 06:50 PM   #3516
Macho0978
Crash and Bang Winger
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Exp:
Default

Red wings picking up erne hurts any cap dumps for Flames
Macho0978 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2019, 11:29 PM   #3517
The Original FFIV
First Line Centre
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Macho0978 View Post
Red wings picking up erne hurts any cap dumps for Flames
I think the pure cap dump ship may have sailed. Steinberg was on sportsnet 650 today and did not seem optimistic of a Frolik deal, saying that deal would have been done by now if there was one there. He is shifting to Jankowski as a possible target saying flames could get asset back without having to sweeten any deal.

I think things have changed with the injury to Valamaki.

- focus has shifted to adding D. Believe we were looking at bolstering our F ranks previously
- D that have been talked about as potential buyouts could now be considered targets if we are able to move money back.

Believe we will see some sort of deal happen where we take back a serviceable D who is being paid too much and Frolik heads back the other way. Janko probably goes ina deal with a more affordable asset coming back in the form of a player on a elc and/or pick coming back. Believe the Flames were looking at moving Brodie for a less expensive rhd as well before the injury to valamaki

We are probably coming back with the same group and will have to hope players like Dube/Mangiapane step up for our F ranks to improve as it looks like options are limited, barring some crazy pto offer.
The Original FFIV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2019, 01:49 AM   #3518
FranksandBean
Draft Pick
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Trade to fix Depth

Wondering if anyone has an appetite for a trade with LA? Given the injury to Valimaki we need to add to our D depth and are short on as well as being low on R-handed D. We also have a few extra NHL level C's, would any of the following trade we worth it to the fan base?

to LA;
either Jankowski or Dube

to CGY;
either Roy or Walker

Both D are waiver exempt this year but could play 3rd pairing next year with Jankowski being waiver eligible this year and Dube being a few years away (depending on how many games he plays). All of the above players are possible for Seattle to Draft so it would really be an exchange of D for C depth.
FranksandBean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2019, 02:20 AM   #3519
TheScorpion
First round-bust
 
TheScorpion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Ottawa
Exp:
Default

Dube isn't going anywhere.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Staples, Edmonton Journal
Holland made transactions which have been a net positive for the Oilers, including his massive, massive, massive Grade A trade of Milan Lucic to the Calgary Flames for James Neal.
TheScorpion is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to TheScorpion For This Useful Post:
Old 08-15-2019, 06:02 AM   #3520
FranksandBean
Draft Pick
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheScorpion View Post
Dube isn't going anywhere.
Great response, not at all emotional....

Could you at least try and respond to the original question while stating you (given you are not in Flames management I won't hold the team to that) would not send Dube anywhere?
FranksandBean is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:28 AM.

Calgary Flames
2017-18




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Calgarypuck 2016