Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Go Back   Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community > Main Forums > Fire on Ice: The Calgary Flames Forum
Ivrnet

View Poll Results: Best guess for Tkachuk's contract result
8 @ 7M 4 1.06%
8 @ 8M 27 7.14%
8 @ 9M 13 3.44%
8 @ 10M 5 1.32%
7 @ 7M 14 3.70%
7 @ 8M 44 11.64%
7 @ 9M 13 3.44%
7 @ 10M 1 0.26%
6 @ 6M 3 0.79%
6 @ 7M 28 7.41%
6 @ 8M 83 21.96%
6 @ 9M 15 3.97%
5 @ 6M 1 0.26%
5 @ 7M 30 7.94%
5 @ 8M 44 11.64%
5 @ 9M 5 1.32%
4 @ 5M 0 0%
4 @ 6M 1 0.26%
4 @ 7M 6 1.59%
3 @ 4M 0 0%
3 @ 5M 1 0.26%
3 @ 6M 26 6.88%
2 @ 4M 1 0.26%
2 @ 5M 13 3.44%
1 @ 4M 0 0%
1 @ 5M 0 0%
Voters: 378. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 05-25-2019, 05:35 PM   #41
kyuss275
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814 View Post
Treliving has yet to sign a contract longer than six years.

As we've seen with Johnny and Monahan, the Gio cap is real. On the Calgary Flames, $6.75M gets you:

-First-line LW who has lead the team in scoring every year since 15/16.
-Soon-to-be Norris trophy winning defenseman who is a freak biceps tear from being a 2x Norris trophy winner.

Tkachuk has finished 5th, 3rd and 4th in team scoring, which is awesome. It doesn't explain why he deserves $2M+ more than players he hasn't been better than. 3 points in 9 playoff games, compared to 12 in 20 for Gaudreau.

Tkachuk is great. There's no way to argue he's not an insanely good hockey player. A common comparable is Nylander. Nylander's cap hit is $6.96M. So it's not even like that deal reset the market, Nylander's negotiation was just a spectacle.

Tkachuk isn't a centre. He isn't Matthews. He isn't McDavid. He isn't even Draisaitl, who got $8.5M ostensibly to be a centre; there's not a single winger not named Draisaitl to get $8M out of their ELC in the entire sport. I know we like Tkachuk, but there has to be a reason beyond "the worst organization in the game gave Draisaitl X, so Tkachuk deserves more despite not even putting up Draisaitl numbers on the wing".

Tkachuk is going to get a deal where most of his lockout year salary is guaranteed in a July 1 signing bonus. He will likely sign for 6 years, and I will be astonished if his number begins with a 7.

The Gio cap is not real. Tkachuk will get more than Gio.Contracts for star players have gone up a notch or 2 since Gio signed. Hell they have gone up a notch or 2 since Johnny signed. I think Marner is going to raise the bar again for wingers this summer. Would not be surprised if a lot of these high priced wingers wait until Marner gets settled to see what the new bar is.
kyuss275 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2019, 05:44 PM   #42
GreenLantern2814
Franchise Player
 
GreenLantern2814's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kyuss275 View Post
The Gio cap is not real. Tkachuk will get more than Gio.Contracts for star players have gone up a notch or 2 since Gio signed. Hell they have gone up a notch or 2 since Johnny signed. I think Marner is going to raise the bar again for wingers this summer. Would not be surprised if a lot of these high priced wingers wait until Marner gets settled to see what the new bar is.
Tkachuk isn't as good as Marner. Marner is a Gaudreau level player. It's debatable if Tkachuk is even better than Nylander, so why is he getting $1M plus more?

I could see that happening if our GM was bad at his job, but he's not.
GreenLantern2814 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2019, 06:05 PM   #43
TheScorpion
First round-bust
 
TheScorpion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Ottawa
Exp:
Default

Monahan signed for seven years and $44.6 million. That is Treliving's largest deal in term and dollars.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Staples, Edmonton Journal
Holland made transactions which have been a net positive for the Oilers, including his massive, massive, massive Grade A trade of Milan Lucic to the Calgary Flames for James Neal.
TheScorpion is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to TheScorpion For This Useful Post:
Old 05-25-2019, 06:08 PM   #44
GreenLantern2814
Franchise Player
 
GreenLantern2814's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheScorpion View Post
Monahan signed for seven years and $44.6 million. That is Treliving's largest deal in term and dollars.
My bad, I could've sworn he and Johnny were both on six-year deals.
GreenLantern2814 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2019, 07:46 PM   #45
Snuffleupagus
First Line Centre
 
Snuffleupagus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814 View Post
Tkachuk isn't as good as Marner. Marner is a Gaudreau level player. It's debatable if Tkachuk is even better than Nylander, so why is he getting $1M plus more?

I could see that happening if our GM was bad at his job, but he's not.
Michael is that you?
Snuffleupagus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2019, 07:47 PM   #46
AustinL_NHL
Crash and Bang Winger
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814 View Post
Tkachuk isn't as good as Marner. Marner is a Gaudreau level player. It's debatable if Tkachuk is even better than Nylander, so why is he getting $1M plus more?

I could see that happening if our GM was bad at his job, but he's not.
Aaaaaand you've lost all credibility.

Oof that's a very bold, bad take.
AustinL_NHL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2019, 08:03 PM   #47
GreenLantern2814
Franchise Player
 
GreenLantern2814's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinL_NHL View Post
Aaaaaand you've lost all credibility.

Oof that's a very bold, bad take.
No, it isn't.

Tkachuk: 174 pts in 224 GP
Nylander: 162 pts in 239 GP

Like, don't get me wrong. I'd rather have Tkachuk. But how much more are those extra 12 pts in 15 games over three seasons worth to you? We're not talking about a Gaudreau vs Byron level gap here.

Tkachuk is not an $8M player - if he is, it's immediately the worst non-UFA contract Treliving has signed.

Last edited by GreenLantern2814; 05-25-2019 at 08:07 PM.
GreenLantern2814 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to GreenLantern2814 For This Useful Post:
Old 05-25-2019, 08:08 PM   #48
AustinL_NHL
Crash and Bang Winger
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814 View Post
No, it isn't.

Tkachuk: 174 pts in 224 GP
Nylander: 162 pts in 239 GP

Like, don't get me wrong. I'd rather have Tkachuk. But how much more are those extra 12 pts in 15 games over three seasons worth to you?

Tkachuk is not an $8M player.
Thank you for telling all of us that you think points are all that matter when it comes to evaluating hockey players

Not only does Tkachuk have more points in less career games, he's much better defensively, an analytical God (Nylander's analytics are good, but not close to Tkachuk level), provides much more physical play, is a true leader, gets under the skin of opposing teams, and draws penalties at an incredible rate.

Comparing Nylander to Tkachuk is an insult to Tkachuk and justifiably makes everyone question just how much you know about evaluating Tkachuk.
AustinL_NHL is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to AustinL_NHL For This Useful Post:
Old 05-25-2019, 08:08 PM   #49
dissentowner
Franchise Player
 
dissentowner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: SW Ontario
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814 View Post
No, it isn't.

Tkachuk: 174 pts in 224 GP
Nylander: 162 pts in 239 GP

Like, don't get me wrong. I'd rather have Tkachuk. But how much more are those extra 12 pts in 15 games over three seasons worth to you? We're not talking about a Gaudreau vs Byron level gap here.

Tkachuk is not an $8M player - if he is, it's immediately the worst non-UFA contract Treliving has signed.
You really think hockey is just about points? Tkachuk brings way more than Nylander in other facets of the game while playing with less skilled players.
dissentowner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2019, 08:15 PM   #50
Flames67
Draft Pick
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814 View Post
No, it isn't.

Tkachuk: 174 pts in 224 GP
Nylander: 162 pts in 239 GP

Like, don't get me wrong. I'd rather have Tkachuk. But how much more are those extra 12 pts in 15 games over three seasons worth to you? We're not talking about a Gaudreau vs Byron level gap here.

Tkachuk is not an $8M player - if he is, it's immediately the worst non-UFA contract Treliving has signed.
Sure, but you're not signing Tkachuk for one year, during his term how good is he going to be? Moreover, how much is someone else willing to pay him?
Flames67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2019, 08:26 PM   #51
GreenLantern2814
Franchise Player
 
GreenLantern2814's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Exp:
Default

I'm not saying points are everything. I agree that Matthew is a But when you're dealing with monster contracts, what gets players paid are points.

Will I be surprised if Tkachuk makes more than Nylander? No. Should he get much more? Also no. Maybe if the top line had become more unstoppable with Tkachuk on the right side, I'd feel different.

Tkachuk isn't better than Gaudreau. He's certainly not $2-3M better.

This is academic; I trust the GM to get it done. These threads speculating on what Treliving gets guys to sign for are never accurate.
GreenLantern2814 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2019, 08:50 PM   #52
Snuffleupagus
First Line Centre
 
Snuffleupagus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814 View Post
I'm not saying points are everything. I agree that Matthew is a But when you're dealing with monster contracts, what gets players paid are points.

Will I be surprised if Tkachuk makes more than Nylander? No. Should he get much more? Also no. Maybe if the top line had become more unstoppable with Tkachuk on the right side, I'd feel different.

Tkachuk isn't better than Gaudreau. He's certainly not $2-3M better.

This is academic; I trust the GM to get it done. These threads speculating on what Treliving gets guys to sign for are never accurate.
As mentioned a million times in many threads, contracts are about timing, not who is better.
Snuffleupagus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2019, 09:14 PM   #53
PepsiFree
Participant
Participant
 
PepsiFree's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Exp:
Default

And if we judged threads by how historically accurate they’ve been, the only thread worth having would be E=NG
PepsiFree is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to PepsiFree For This Useful Post:
Old 05-25-2019, 09:31 PM   #54
dino7c
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Exp:
Default

Contracts singed 2 or 3 years ago are totally irrelevant. Why can't some of you grasp this?

Cap has gone up...it's not rocket science
__________________
#MakeTheFlamesGreatAgain
dino7c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2019, 09:32 PM   #55
TheScorpion
First round-bust
 
TheScorpion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Ottawa
Exp:
Default

I wouldn't say they're totally irrelevant... we can still look at what percentage of the cap players signed for
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Staples, Edmonton Journal
Holland made transactions which have been a net positive for the Oilers, including his massive, massive, massive Grade A trade of Milan Lucic to the Calgary Flames for James Neal.
TheScorpion is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to TheScorpion For This Useful Post:
Old 05-25-2019, 09:37 PM   #56
dino7c
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheScorpion View Post
I wouldn't say they're totally irrelevant... we can still look at what percentage of the cap players signed for
Fine but saying guy X is better so you can't pay so and so more than him is just dumb.

Gaudreau is a double digit millions cap hit if he were up for a contract
__________________
#MakeTheFlamesGreatAgain
dino7c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2019, 09:41 PM   #57
DeluxeMoustache
 
DeluxeMoustache's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Exp:
Default

Yeah and at the same time, RFA’s aren’t UFA’s and smart GMs leverage that.
DeluxeMoustache is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to DeluxeMoustache For This Useful Post:
Old 05-25-2019, 09:55 PM   #58
dino7c
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache View Post
Yeah and at the same time, RFA’s aren’t UFA’s and smart GMs leverage that.
RFA with 99 points would get a double digit M contract...things have changed.

Mat is a tier below but will still get paid. If he is in the Flames lineup in October he will be the highest paid player on the team...like it or not
__________________
#MakeTheFlamesGreatAgain
dino7c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2019, 10:13 PM   #59
DeluxeMoustache
 
DeluxeMoustache's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dino7c View Post
RFA with 99 points would get a double digit M contract...things have changed.

Mat is a tier below but will still get paid. If he is in the Flames lineup in October he will be the highest paid player on the team...like it or not
A truly desperate GM overpaid up north, and a very green one who apparently got a job based on his history with analytics more so than based on his NHL network and skill at negotiations.

Point is that an RFA has one (1) team to negotiate with, and zero (0) other ways to play in the NHL for several years.

Any GM that overpaid is, in my opinion, a dumbass. Tre appears to be a savvy negotiator and not a dumbass.
DeluxeMoustache is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2019, 10:20 PM   #60
kyuss275
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814 View Post
I'm not saying points are everything. I agree that Matthew is a But when you're dealing with monster contracts, what gets players paid are points.

Will I be surprised if Tkachuk makes more than Nylander? No. Should he get much more? Also no. Maybe if the top line had become more unstoppable with Tkachuk on the right side, I'd feel different.

Tkachuk isn't better than Gaudreau. He's certainly not $2-3M better.

This is academic; I trust the GM to get it done. These threads speculating on what Treliving gets guys to sign for are never accurate.

Nylander has a $6.9 million cap and is a one dimensional player. You already said that Tkachuk wont get $7million. Do you really think that Tkachuk comes in at $6.95million?

just like other posters keep saying ...it doesn't matter what Johnny hockey signed for 2 years ago. There are going to be players around the league, not as good as him, getting more money going forward .Hell there are players making more than Mackinnon going forward let alone johnny hockey.

Last edited by kyuss275; 05-25-2019 at 10:23 PM.
kyuss275 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:30 AM.

Calgary Flames
2017-18




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Calgarypuck 2016