CTV hijacks SuperBowl [MRG]

[Nuje]

Originally Posted by Trey Wingbat

So as per CRTC regulations, only markets with an HD OTA transmitter should see simsubs. But Bell TV simsubs nationally, and CTV benefits about getting additional simsubs on a regular basis. But of course, CTV doesn't complain about this.

But CTV does complain about Bell TV providing an alternate direct feed of the US station during the Superbowl, even though markets outside and Vancouver and Toronto should be seeing a non-simsubbed version. So what is it CTV? You can't have it both ways.

I had to read that a few times, but I get it now. I'll write a letter to them tomorrow for sure. That's absolute crap. I feel like a rant, but I'll hold it for now.The CRTC is like the UAW, but for Canadian TV.

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by Nuje

I had to read that a few times, but I get it now. I'll write a letter to them tomorrow for sure. That's absolute crap. I feel like a rant, but I'll hold it for now.The CRTC is like the UAW, but for Canadian TV.

Specifically which part is "absolute crap"?

Simsubbing in general, or something specific?

[Trey Wingbat]

There are so many things wrong with the simsubbing rule in general, and this is one case of it. CTV benefts from simsubs nationally when they shouldn't, and then they whine and complain about SuperBowl simsubs that aren't in their favour.

The simsub rule was created so that additional revenues could be generated by Canadian ads, and then this revenue is supposed to be used by CTV and Global to create quality Canadian programs that Canadians would watch. But instead, the likes of CTV and Global either pocket the money and their execs buy fancy houses and big boats, or they do things like outbid the CBC for the Hockey Night in Canada theme song (CTV), or buy other media companies like Alliance Atlantis (Global).

Also, in my area, my cable provider includes me as a part of the Toronto area for simsubs, even though we have our own head office and are called something else unrelated to the Toronto market, yet when special previews and launch channels are done, we are NOT considered part of the Toronto market by my cable provider. So again, you can't have it both ways.

Simsubbing ticks me off to no end, not only because it isn't done right, but the rule keeps being used and abused, and CTV and Global keep hiding behind it and are afraid to go up head to head against the American networks.

Do you think Tom's Canadian Hardware store gets offered the same kind of protection that CTV and Global do when poor little old Tom has to go up against gigantic Home Depot and compete for business- no way in H E double hockey sticks!!!

[fwd]

Earlier in 2008, the CRTC defended simsubbing:
"Advertising revenues are also what enable Canadian broadcasters to bring you programming such as the Super Bowl."
http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/news/RELEA...08/i080128.htm

So, they're trying to make it sound like, without simsubbing, Canadians would not be able to watch the Super Bowl. Which, if true, then there wouldn't be these discussions, would there?

Meanwhile, CTV argued that Canadians do NOT want to watch the American commercials:
"CTV also disagreed with Bell TV’s assertion that viewers who tune into the Super Bowl are primarily interested in the commercial messages. CTV added that those viewers who really want to see the U.S. commercials can download them from the Internet within minutes after their being broadcast during the game."
http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/archive/2008/db2008-358.htm

Eastlake Cable had argued that Canadians DO want to watch the American commercials:
"McKeen argued the Super Bowl is simply a "phenomenon" and unlike any other sporting event. The lead-up to the American ad campaign lasts for months and Canadians feel cheated when they are unable to watch the ads because they are often a highlight of the game, he added."

Alan Sawyer stated that Canadians wanting to watch the multi-million dollar American commercials was only anecdotal:
"Alan Sawyer, a media strategist with Two Solitudes Consulting, says while there may be some anecdotal evidence that Canadians want to see the ads, the true appetite for changing the signal substitution rule remains unclear."
http://www.friends.ca/news-item/2431

This same Alan Sawyer is also arguing that it is time for the CRTC to review regulating INTERNET content, to preserve Canadian culture:
"Alan Sawyer of Toronto-based Two Solitudes Consulting said it's time for a policy review and the CRTC is expected to take a commercial focus and won't look at what individuals are doing with their websites."
http://www.cp24.com/servlet/an/local...5?hub=CP24Home

(Gee, I wonder if Two Solitudes Consulting has CTV as a client.)

CRTC has used an iron fist to force Shaw and Bell to develop technology to ensure complete simsub compliance.
Do you think CTV would be at all disappointed if Shaw, Bell (and Rogers) were forced to develop some kind of internet technology to preserve Canadian culture?

Are Canadians seriously wanting the CRTC to start regulating the internet?

[Trey Wingbat]

When I frist read that CTV stated that Canadians aren't interested in watching the American ads during the Superbowl, I almost blew a gasket. I am a huge NFL fan, and I'll watch almost every regular season game, so watching the game itself is the most important to me during the Superbowl. But naturally, just like everyone else, I want to see the commercials themselves.

First of all (and I am steamed right now while typing this), CTV is saying that people don't want to watch the commercials, but then they state that if you do, you can watch them online anyways!!! So what is it CTV, either people want to watch them or they don't.

And who in their right mind wouldn't want to see the Superbowl commercials in glorious HD in real-time on a 60" or 70" HD TV, instead of viewing them online after the fact in a grainy compressed pixelated format on a 15" computer screen??????????????????

JCAM (Jesus Christ Almighty) I can't believe they have the audacity to say these things. Normally I am an even keeled guy, and nothing really bothers me in life, but simsubbing just turns my crank beyond belief.

And don't even get me started on regulating the Internet. It's bad enough we can't watched streamed shows on the American sites themselves, but instead have to go to CrapTV and Global to view American shows!!!

[Bobblehead]

Wow, you don't really strike me as "even keeled" if you "almost blew a gasket" when CTV talked about American commercials.

Sumsubs suck, I would far prefer to see the new funny commercials rather than those Panago or Bell commercials, but I'm not sure it is an issue worth grabbing the pitchforks and storming the castle over.

I'm sure if you want to see the HD versions of the commercials you will be able to find the HD commercials. I know I have seen them all packed in a file on a torrent site after previous Superbowls.

I'm not sure the CRTC is the one to blame here. It is CTV who is the one causing the issues. If they don't request sumsubs, there won't be any.

And it isn't like the CRTC is a CTV lackey. There were no repercussions for Shaw - Shaw gave a reason why they didn't simsub, the CRTC accepted that ("In light of the above, the Commission finds that Shaw was in non-compliance with its requirement to perform simultaneous substitution of CTV’s HD broadcast of the 2008 Super Bowl, but also accepts its explanation that technical difficulties prohibited it from performing that simultaneous substitution."). And the CRTC said Star Choice did nothing wrong, StarChoice handled the issue exactly like their license required ("In light of this, the Commission considers that Star Choice was in compliance with its condition of licence in regard to the simultaneous substitution of the 2008 Super Bowl in HD.")

Bell EVU was the only one faulted for willfully violating the simsub, which is ironic since they are both owned by Bell Globemedia.

[Trey Wingbat]

My frustration alone wasn't out of the fact that CTV was simply not airing the American commercials and I was missing out on them, but the fact that they have the nerve to tell people to download them afterwards if they really want to see them, after missing out on them due to their network not showing them in the first place!

It's like during the 2006-07 NFL Playoffs on Global. Global's inability to pass through the FOX HD signals properly resulted in severe macroblocking and pixelation, and the game was unwatchable. The local Toronto media even harped about this. Specifically for the NFC Championship game that year, the pre-game was from Soldier Field on FOX and it was uninterrupted, and it looked fine. But once Global cut in, everything went downhill. But then Global had the nerve to run commercials for their newscast touting a special consumer reports segment telling people how to buy the best HD TV for the upcoming Superbowl. What good is it buying the proper HD TV in Canada if we can't even watch the game with the proper HD video if Global can't pass through the HD signals properly!!!

So it's like these Canadian networks have it there way, and then they doubly screw you over with other statements and actions that just rubs in the fact that you're being screwed over with simsubbing to begin with!

I've had enough of it in general too, and I do blame the CRTC for this rule in the first place. I've missed out on endings of basketball games on NBC back in the day because another Canadian channel would cut in overtop when they thought the game was supposed to end but hasn't (and that is the BDU's fault), and the fact about CTV screwing up the NBA on NBC in the first place by missing out on promos and such and key parts of the telecast. Also, like I mentioned before, the rule isn't working and we aren't seeing a lot of Canadian content being generated as evidenced by the top 30 ranking list of shows in Canada released for each week. Plus CTV having deep pockets thanks to airing so many American shows and not producing their own shows, and then outbidding the CBC for the rights to the HNIC theme song isn't what the rule was put in place for either!

[transplant99]

Since CTV purchased the rights to show the Super Bowl in Canada....i have no problem with them doing this.

Its how they make their money. Why shoudlnt they have right to sell their ads during the game?

[Trey Wingbat]

Because they should air CFL games instead and promote the Canadian culture. What is so Canadian about airing shows like American Idol, CSI: Miami, and Boston Legal? But they don't care about the Canadian culture, they just want to make money, and pretend they care about the Canadian culture. Remember, the rule is to strengthing the Canadian TV landscape, but instead, viewers are becoming more Americanized by having little quality Canadian to choose from.

If the CRTC wants to promote the Canadian culture and identity, force these Canadian networks to air all Canadian shows all the time! CTV and Global should compete against the likes of NBC and CBS, and quit cowhering behind this rule.

Again, is Tom's little Canadian hardware store offered any protection against the Home Depot? No. He has to compete head-to-head. And CTV and Global aren't even that little to begin with, relatively speaking.

[transplant99]

they just want to make money

They are a business...what the hell esle should they do? Lose money?

In fact are you suggesting they shouldnt show the NFL at all? Im confused....CBC is a government sponsered TV station that is to promote Canadianism and get a boatlod of money to do so. The CTV is a private entity and has no such mandate.

Remember, the rule is to strengthing the Canadian TV landscape, but instead, viewers are becoming more Americanized by having little quality Canadian to choose from.

Yet here you are screaming that you cant watch american TV ads!!! Which way is it?

If the CRTC wants to promote the Canadian culture and identity, force these Canadian networks to air all Canadian shows all the time! CTV and Global should compete against the likes of NBC and CBS, and quit cowhering behind this rule

Just odd. Global cant directly compete against NBC because NBC cant sell TV ads in Canada. Global can....and they compete against the CBC/CTV/TSN etc etc etc.

Again, is Tom's little Canadian hardware store offered any protection against the Home Depot?

Ummm...huh? No...its called competition, not protectionism.

[Bobblehead]

I 100% agree with you about simsubbing screwing over the beginning or ending of shows. Although I think that is something that should be able to be fixed by better vigilance but the cable/sat providers.

Your diatribe about HNIC theme or top 30 shows has absolutely no relevance to this (and you are wrong, to boot). CTV(or any network) pays for the Canadian rights. That's the way the business runs and they want to protect their rights. Part of their broadcast license has Canadian content requirements. Their broadcast license says nothing about simsubbing. Simsubbing is something in the Cable/Sat licenses, and it is a tradeoff they made to be able to rebroadcast the American channels.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

CTV(or any network) pays for the Canadian rights.

Right, but I also pay extra to have the US networks. So who's rights are greater- mine or CTV's?

This is like Chapters buying the Canadian rights to a book, and not allowing me to buy one from a store in Montana. Obviously this is a bit of a simplification, but I'm just trying to give another example.

See, in my mind some CRTC rules work. Like CanCon with radio stations. Would bands like the Tragically Hip have made it without the Cancon laws- no.

But for TV it's a very different animal. Cancon laws are there to protect Networks so they can produce Canadian TV shows. I'm sorry, but 3 hours of "Save the Children's fund" per day doesn't count in my books. There are exceptional Canadian shows like Corner Gas, but those are few and far between.

And for me the bottom line is that I am far more likely to visit Seattle as opposed to Vancouver, so let me pick which channel I get to watch.

Add to all of this the fact that the SuperBowl is an event like no other- and you have even more reason not to simsub. Yes, you can watch them later on. But when I'm watching the Superbowl with my friends we like to watch the entire thing all together.

[Trey Wingbat]

At least the CBC shows a lot of Canadian programming, and doesn't hijack American networks. But if I want to watch American commercials on an American network, then I should be able to. CNN, A&E, CNBC are American channels that are allowed in this country and we can watch them without interruptions ever. Why can't that be true of NBC, CBS, ABC and FOX?

Sure, these Canadian networks buy the rights to the American programs, but why don't they develop a lot more of their own Canadian content and promote the Canadian culture and identity. If quality shows were produced that had Canadian situations, Canadian political insuiations, and Canadian cultural references, then I would watch them over shows that are set in New York City or Miami and only reference the American cutlure. But we're not even given good options to choose from in the beginning. Then the whole premise of these Canadian networks just settling to air American shows isn't right. It is just about the money for them and nothing else, and that's pathetic. They don't even try to develop anything original anymore it seems like.

Also, if a show gets cancelled on an American network, that American network has to scramble to find another show to fill it's timeslot. The American network has to come up with new ideas for a show, find actors and production staff, write good scripts, promote the show and launch it, and hopes it does well. Meanwhile, stations like CTV and Global can just sit back and fill in that vacated timeslot with another existing American show or wait for a show to be developed by an American network. These Canadian networks aren't really broadcasters in the sense that they just relay American shows and that's it.

The American networks should setup affiliates in Canada too if they want and then we could get direct feeds of the networks without the need for Global and CTV, and then they could sell advertising revenue to the Canadian marketplace. NBC has set up channels in Europe, so maybe they should look at that here.

Simsubbing is a mandate set out by the CRTC, but the Canadian network requests the simsub and the cable / sat provider carries it out (and often times incorrectly). But again, it is not working, and CTV and Global just continue to hide behind this rule and dont' contribute to the Canadian culture and identity. We are being Americanized everyday more and more. And it is a form of protectionism because they are being protected from the Canadian viewer having the choice to watch NBC directly or choosing their network. Why not just buy the rights and then let the viewer decide which network to watch on? When an American show is shown in Canada that isn't picked up by a Canadian network, we get to see the feed uninterrupted with the original Canadian commercials. There is no need for CTV or Global to begin with! We can watch it on the American network.

True competition would be for these Canadian networks developing their own Canadian shows and competing against American networks, just like Tom's Canadian Hardware Store has to compete against Home Depot, and not seeing who can air the most American shows between Global and CTV and see who could win the ratings war by just buying the rights to American programs.

[Trey Wingbat]

Transplant99, you stated that "CTV is a private entity and has no such mandate" regarding Canadian content.

But they actually do. As per CRTC regulations, they do have to air a minimum amount of Canadian content. The rules are that from 6 pm until midnight, a minimum amount of 50 percent Canadian content must be aired. But this includes news broadcasts, news magazines, and other Canadian serials (including bonuses acheived for certain shows having x percentage of Canadian production staff), so that leaves the primetime hours from 8 pm until 11 pm purely open to the hijacking of American sitcoms and dramas.

This mandate is paltry to begin with though. I mean, who aims to achieve half of something in life anyways? That's like me saying I'm only going to read half the book, or eat half my dinner everynight, or put in a 50 percent effort when playing hockey.

[fwd]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Since CTV purchased the rights to show the Super Bowl in Canada....i have no problem with them doing this.

Its how they make their money. Why shoudlnt they have right to sell their ads during the game?

They should have the right - on THEIR channel.

As earlier quoted the CRTC makes it seem that without CTV having purchased these rights, I wouldn't be able to view the Super Bowl.
"Advertising revenues are also what enable Canadian broadcasters to bring you programming such as the Super Bowl."
http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/news/RELEA...08/i080128.htm

Like Ken, I specifically purchased the Detroit feeds from Shaw, so I can watch them the way Fox broadcasts them (including the commercials).

The Super Bowl is the most watched program that exists. It (including the commercials) is an event, that hundreds of millions of people look forward to.

What CTV does is like slicing up a Picaso, and taping it back together with some Canadian Tire money added in, to "preserve canadian culture."

How does FORCING me to watch Canadian Tire ads, and cut in late to the feed so that some effeminate Toronto voice trying to sound manly, shills ads of American shows that are coming up later on CTV - how does that "preserve canadian culture?"

Are you also going to defend the position that CTV will be taking during CRTC's hearings regarding the internet, too?

[transplant99]

Yeesh.

Whats so hard to understand here?

Simply put...if no Canadian station picks up the rights to a show/sporting event then of course you can view it on the American feed. If they dont, you cant. It has ALWAYS been this way. American channels are only a supplement to canadian stations, not a replacement.

CTV paid for the rights to air the Super Bowl in CANADA...not on "their" station.

As per CRTC regulations, they do have to air a minimum amount of Canadian content.

Quite aware of that thank you...but read what you wrote. They (CTV/GLOBAL) are forced to carry can-con, it is not part of their true mandate unless said programming is good enough to make them money. Its the very reason that CBC still gets a billion dollars a year in funding...because they dont really have to make money to stay afloat broadcasting the nonsense they so often do.

I get why you guys are pissed about this, but i certainly understand why CTV is protecting their investments as well.

[SportsJunky]

Originally Posted by ken0042

Right, but I also pay extra to have the US networks. So who's rights are greater- mine or CTV's?

This is like Chapters buying the Canadian rights to a book, and not allowing me to buy one from a store in Montana. Obviously this is a bit of a simplification, but I'm just trying to give another example.

See, in my mind some CRTC rules work. Like CanCon with radio stations. Would bands like the Tragically Hip have made it without the Cancon laws- no.

But for TV it's a very different animal. Cancon laws are there to protect Networks so they can produce Canadian TV shows. I'm sorry, but 3 hours of "Save the Children's fund" per day doesn't count in my books. There are exceptional Canadian shows like Corner Gas, but those are few and far between.

And for me the bottom line is that I am far more likely to visit Seattle as opposed to Vancouver, so let me pick which channel I get to watch.

Add to all of this the fact that the SuperBowl is an event like no other- and you have even more reason not to simsub. Yes, you can watch them later on. But when I'm watching the Superbowl with my friends we like to watch the entire thing all together.

Oops, I thanked this post of Ken's because I agree that if I am paying to watch U.S. content then let me see ALL of it damnit. Problem was I didn't see how you are in support of Canadian Content regulations for radio. Cancon is facism!

[fwd]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Yeesh.

Whats so hard to understand here?

CTV did NOT pay for the Detroit feeds. I AM.

What CRTC and CTV are doing is complete fascism, communism, or some other ism.

And the internet is next?
"7. In Broadcasting Public Notice 2008-44, the Commission noted that it had previously identified several preconditions that would suggest the need to review the environment for broadcasting in new media. These include:
insufficient levels of Canadian content on the Internet;"
http://www.crtc.gc.ca/archive/eng/He...8/n2008-11.htm
(Hearings begin in Feb. 2009)


Come on.
How can anyone defend this crap?
The CRTC and CTV are making China's rules look reasonable.

[transplant99]

CTV did NOT pay for the Detroit feeds

Sigh.

CTV paid for the rights to air the Superbowl in Canada....period. End of story.

Just because you pay for a feed that carries the same programming, it does not usurp that CTV paid for the exclusive ability to air it North of the 49th.

Not sure what part of that you are arguing with.

[Trey Wingbat]

Well, I encourage anyone to get OTA to do so to see the uninterrupted feed if they are in range. That way CTV can't interrupt and force their "rights" upon you. Others have gone to other means as well to get their signals to escape simsubbing as they are just plain sick of it.

And don't forget the title of this thread is "CTV hijacks SuperBowl"... I mean, the title even implies they take over the feed and keep us hostage in our own homes when trying to watch American channels, leaving us no choice but to watch them. It may have been this way for a long time, but I think there's more people starting to understand all the rules and nuances of simultaneous substitution, especially via the Internet and various online forums, and more and more people are becoming more upset. A lot of people have just had enough with botched simsubs and shows being cut off, and now with HD simsubs, the audio / video not being passed through properly after a simsub takes effect.

But I really can't see the CRTC trying to control the Internet... that just reeks of communist dictatorship.