02-02-2019, 04:58 PM
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#461
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: east van
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'Yes, he died in India see, opening an orphanage, that's the ticket, died in India, they cremated him by the banks of the Ganges, with the orphans weeping and sobbing by his saintly body. like Ghandi he was.
The 250 million? oh yes that's impossible to access now, sorry about that, anyway I'm off to my vast mansion in the Grand Caymens to grieve, inconsolable I am'
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02-03-2019, 02:54 PM
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#462
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Franchise Player
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Good point, "opening an orphanage". Uh huh.
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02-03-2019, 04:50 PM
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#463
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: east van
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzz
Good point, "opening an orphanage". Uh huh.
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Im sure you can pretty well bribe a whole police department in some poor part of India for a few thousand, a grand or so for the medical exam and some vaguely pale body to cremate and bobs your uncle, you're dead and the moneys 'impossible to access' so no one would be any the wiser you shoved it all into an offshore account in your own name a few weeks before
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02-03-2019, 05:52 PM
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#464
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In the Sin Bin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzz
I don't know much about offline wallets, but if that system died without a backup, would they also have lost everything in the offline wallets?
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Yup. Just like if you threw your actual wallet into a fire. It's gone.
And yeah, I'm also betting that when they finally break the encryption they are going to find that the proverbial safe is empty.
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02-03-2019, 06:57 PM
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#465
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Hyperbole Chamber
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afc wimbledon
Im sure you can pretty well bribe a whole police department in some poor part of India for a few thousand, a grand or so for the medical exam and some vaguely pale body to cremate and bobs your uncle, you're dead and the moneys 'impossible to access' so no one would be any the wiser you shoved it all into an offshore account in your own name a few weeks before
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It’s not really that simple. He’d have to move 26,500 bitcoins into fiat first to move it into an offshore account. If he’d have done that the court wouldn’t have proof of the bitcoins and ether held at one or more addresses.
He’d have to fake his own death, wait out the bankruptcy and at some point in the future transfer when no one is paying attention to those addresses holding the bitcoins, move them.
So in order to wait that out, he’d have been slowly skimming from the hot wallets bit by bit along the way so perhaps the 26,500 should really be a lot more.
Last edited by topfiverecords; 02-03-2019 at 07:04 PM.
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02-03-2019, 07:04 PM
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#466
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Hyperbole Chamber
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Resolute 14
Yup. Just like if you threw your actual wallet into a fire. It's gone.
And yeah, I'm also betting that when they finally break the encryption they are going to find that the proverbial safe is empty.
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They don’t need to break encryption to determine a bitcoin balance. The ledger determines if the 26,500 bitcoin are at the address(es) or not.
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02-03-2019, 10:44 PM
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#467
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: east van
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topfiverecords
It’s not really that simple. He’d have to move 26,500 bitcoins into fiat first to move it into an offshore account. If he’d have done that the court wouldn’t have proof of the bitcoins and ether held at one or more addresses.
He’d have to fake his own death, wait out the bankruptcy and at some point in the future transfer when no one is paying attention to those addresses holding the bitcoins, move them.
So in order to wait that out, he’d have been slowly skimming from the hot wallets bit by bit along the way so perhaps the 26,500 should really be a lot more.
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That moneys long gone, frankly I doubt most of it was ever put into bitcoins in the first place, it sounds like a classic ponzi scheme, they transfer small amounts from the 'cold wallet' to the 'hot wallet', that's ponzi 101
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02-04-2019, 04:41 AM
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#468
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Shanghai
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I am not familiar with this case, but:
1. An exchange never putting money into bitcoin doesn't seem plausible, as the way exchanges work is based on records of transfers on the blockchain network. That network is not controlled by the exchange and is much larger than the exchange. Falsifying that seems very unlikely.
2. If there were real transfers on the blockchain then there are records of all of those in the public ledger. The public ledger is just that: the record of all movements, and nothing is valid unless it's in that ledger. There is no moving money outside of that ledger.
Basically, based only on knowledge of how blockchains actually work, fraud as suggested in this case by afc seems not possible. I generally agree that where there is a will and a way with a large incentive that cheating is the likely outcome, but the suggested ways in this case don't seem plausible. Without knowing more, I'd say Occam's razor would suggest the simpler explanation is just poor management of the cold wallet. The notion of running a functioning exchange where thousands of bitcoins are never actually even on the blockchain seems much more like fantasy than the alternative.
Do you really understand how blockchains work afc? If so, please explain how that would actually work.
__________________
"If stupidity got us into this mess, then why can't it get us out?"
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02-04-2019, 10:06 AM
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#469
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Franchise Player
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Virginia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyB
I am not familiar with this case, but:
1. An exchange never putting money into bitcoin doesn't seem plausible, as the way exchanges work is based on records of transfers on the blockchain network. That network is not controlled by the exchange and is much larger than the exchange. Falsifying that seems very unlikely.
2. If there were real transfers on the blockchain then there are records of all of those in the public ledger. The public ledger is just that: the record of all movements, and nothing is valid unless it's in that ledger. There is no moving money outside of that ledger.
Basically, based only on knowledge of how blockchains actually work, fraud as suggested in this case by afc seems not possible. I generally agree that where there is a will and a way with a large incentive that cheating is the likely outcome, but the suggested ways in this case don't seem plausible. Without knowing more, I'd say Occam's razor would suggest the simpler explanation is just poor management of the cold wallet. The notion of running a functioning exchange where thousands of bitcoins are never actually even on the blockchain seems much more like fantasy than the alternative.
Do you really understand how blockchains work afc? If so, please explain how that would actually work.
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There seems to be some theories and details out there of what might have been happening.
https://www.reddit.com/r/QuadrigaCX/...th_hot_wallet/
https://www.newsbtc.com/2019/02/04/q...to-researcher/
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02-04-2019, 10:50 AM
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#470
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: east van
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyB
I am not familiar with this case, but:
1. An exchange never putting money into bitcoin doesn't seem plausible, as the way exchanges work is based on records of transfers on the blockchain network. That network is not controlled by the exchange and is much larger than the exchange. Falsifying that seems very unlikely.
2. If there were real transfers on the blockchain then there are records of all of those in the public ledger. The public ledger is just that: the record of all movements, and nothing is valid unless it's in that ledger. There is no moving money outside of that ledger.
Basically, based only on knowledge of how blockchains actually work, fraud as suggested in this case by afc seems not possible. I generally agree that where there is a will and a way with a large incentive that cheating is the likely outcome, but the suggested ways in this case don't seem plausible. Without knowing more, I'd say Occam's razor would suggest the simpler explanation is just poor management of the cold wallet. The notion of running a functioning exchange where thousands of bitcoins are never actually even on the blockchain seems much more like fantasy than the alternative.
Do you really understand how blockchains work afc? If so, please explain how that would actually work.
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So you are saying it is not possible to tell your rube's suckers and other dopes you put their money into bitcoins, make up a plausible looking printout that's utterly fake and then shove the money in some offshore bank account while giving them back small amounts of 'bitcoin' to keep them pumping their and their friends and families money into the scam?
I think you will find that that is very, very possible, if you don't believe me I suggest you persue a career selling Herbalife, lose weight now ask me how.
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02-04-2019, 01:45 PM
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#471
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afc wimbledon
'Yes, he died in India see, opening an orphanage, that's the ticket, died in India, they cremated him by the banks of the Ganges, with the orphans weeping and sobbing by his saintly body. like Ghandi he was.
The 250 million? oh yes that's impossible to access now, sorry about that, anyway I'm off to my vast mansion in the Grand Caymens to grieve, inconsolable I am'
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It was $250 million, now it is $190 million? Either way, frack, this story is crazy.
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02-06-2019, 08:17 AM
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#472
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Franchise Player
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Saw a reddit thread that was saying they cold wallets were getting drained. The ones they allege they 'don't have the passwords for'.
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02-06-2019, 10:43 AM
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#473
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: east van
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The best type of sucker is the one that thinks they know more than the rest, that their intimate knowledge of, say blockchain technology, makes them special, you can keep those on the hook long after Grandma has admitted she got ripped off by a phony lotto ticket company
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02-06-2019, 10:50 AM
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#474
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Calgary, Alberta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weitz
Saw a reddit thread that was saying they cold wallets were getting drained. The ones they allege they 'don't have the passwords for'.
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Is there actual evidence for this? I mean at this point that's just pure fraud and thievery, right? Clearly the authorities are going to be interested and involved if that's the case.
I don't understand how all that works (maybe I'm an old man already!), but if no one can get in, how can anyone verify the balance and know that the accounts were being drained?
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02-06-2019, 11:42 AM
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#475
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slava
Is there actual evidence for this? I mean at this point that's just pure fraud and thievery, right? Clearly the authorities are going to be interested and involved if that's the case.
I don't understand how all that works (maybe I'm an old man already!), but if no one can get in, how can anyone verify the balance and know that the accounts were being drained?
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That's the nice thing about the blockchain. It's a public ledger of every transaction. So his wallet would have an ID, and you can see in the blockchain that a transaction was made for that wallet ID in the past few days or whatever. So the idea that it is anonymous isn't really the case, if someone knows what ID is tied to who.
So you don't see the person's account and balance, but you can see the transaction, if I understand it correctly.
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02-06-2019, 12:23 PM
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#476
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Hyperbole Chamber
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzz
That's the nice thing about the blockchain. It's a public ledger of every transaction. So his wallet would have an ID, and you can see in the blockchain that a transaction was made for that wallet ID in the past few days or whatever. So the idea that it is anonymous isn't really the case, if someone knows what ID is tied to who.
So you don't see the person's account and balance, but you can see the transaction, if I understand it correctly.
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Correct. In fact there's no such thing as an actual account full of currency. Imagine a pre-technology physical world where there is no cash, just a huge group of people carrying around ledger books.
The ledger books list every possible account address ever. Not just used addresses, every possible address containing 26-35 alphanumeric characters. Every time there's a transaction the nearest ledger book guy updates the sending address and updates the receiving address. Also listed under each address in the book is a history of the transaction. He then tells every other ledger book guy in the world to update their ledgers to match.
So I go to Joe's to buy his garage sale junk. I process him 0.00023 bitcoin. Magic ledger guy arrives out of nowhere with his massive ledger book. Finds my address on page 354013 and sees if the ledger says I actually have 0.00023 bitcoin or more. He can also see under my address how I acquired my bitcoin in the first place. History of all transactions will be listed from the first receipt transaction to that address.
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02-06-2019, 12:34 PM
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#477
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Franchise Player
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That reddit stuff doesn't make a lot of sense. The only evidence pointing to them being Quadriga's cold storage is that they're wallets with a large balance that interacted with Quadriga's hot wallet. That could be anyone depositing or withdrawing, really.
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02-07-2019, 10:18 AM
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#478
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: east van
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Quote:
Originally Posted by opendoor
That reddit stuff doesn't make a lot of sense. The only evidence pointing to them being Quadriga's cold storage is that they're wallets with a large balance that interacted with Quadriga's hot wallet. That could be anyone depositing or withdrawing, really.
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The funniest part, other than the fact they have lost all their money, is the poor suckers who extolled the virtues of crypto protecting them from the prying heavy hand of the Government now demanding the Government get their money back.
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02-07-2019, 10:52 AM
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#479
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Somewhere down the crazy river.
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Why didn’t they just keep their crypto’s themselves instead of relying on this guy?
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02-07-2019, 01:02 PM
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#480
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In the Sin Bin
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One reason is 'currency' exchange. If you're mining crapcoins and want to exchange them into bitcoins, you need to do that through an exchange. It then often becomes easier just to leave the bitcoin on those exchanges. Also, if you're lazy and don't want to back up your wallet yourself, then theoretically having your currency on the exchange means it is accessible from anywhere and backed up.
Reality, of course, diverges from expectation.
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