[News] With the 21st overall pick Flames select C Mark Jankowski

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Defenders walk onto contenders all the time. Those teams shelter these players with their team play to boost their perceived value. Maatta had the benefit of an arguably top 5 in league defense partner in Letang, along with always being on the ice with the likes of Crosby and Co. Last year in the playoffs he was awful but constantly bailed out by Fleury and Murray.

Look no further than Justin Schultz in Edmonton VS Schultz in Pittsburgh.

Or Dougie Hamilton as a top pair sophomore on the Bruins wih Chara vs 4th year pro Hamilton who looked middling on a second pair with Kris Russell. Or... Matt Bartkowski on that same team playing top 4 minutes who people wanted as a centerpiece in the Iginla trade vs Matt Bartkowski afterwards.

If you look at Maatta for who he is individually rather than the team he plays on you realize he hasn't had an impressive career yet at all. Jankowski might only be beginning his career but should be the better player for the next ~decade (the prime of the two)

I don't care about the debate at all, but in the playoffs Maatta averaged 20:37 ice time for a stanley cup winner without Letang. You can't just dismiss him so easily.

[Henry Fool]

Maatta certainly wasn't sheltered in the playoffs, he was exposed. His mobility seems quite reduced. He's had a ton of health problems. Obivously he played more than Pittsburgh would have ideally preferred. So I'm not saying he's great or anything. But still, good enough to contribute to a cup winning team.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Henry Fool

I don't care about the debate at all, but in the playoffs Maatta averaged 20:37 ice time for a stanley cup winner without Letang. You can't just dismiss him so easily.

Did you watch the playoffs last year? Maatta was horrible. Every shift he got bailed out. I am not dismissing him easily I am dismissing him carefully. You can't give him a free pass so easily for playing on a stacked roster that got world class goaltending.

Maatta's upside at this point is an Edler type sidekick #2 defenseman and his floor is a below average ot average #4D. Jankowski's upside at this point looks to be a 60-ish point defensive center and his floor in my eyes is a Bonino type high-end 3C.

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Did you watch the playoffs last year? Maatta was horrible. Every shift he got bailed out. I am not dismissing him easily I am dismissing him carefully

He played that much, they won the cup, and "every shift" he got bailed out? I'm sure you can appreciate that what he was asked to do in the playoffs would be a big challenge for most 22-year-old defensemen. I don't know his current health situation, so I don't know if he can get more mobility. Where his career goes kind of seems to depend on that.

[FiveSeven]

Funny last year all the janko haters wouldn’t stop about how amazing maata and he should of been our pick. He was never something great. Flames chose right.

[Henry Fool]

On Maatta's upside, I think you're actually more optimistic than I am, Granteed. I think his health is still a possible issue, but I don't follow the Pittsburgh news. Second pair probably, unless he runs into more trouble, which is pretty good for a late first pick.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Henry Fool

He played that much, they won the cup, and "every shift" he got bailed out?

You are assumjng correlation when there was none. The Penguins won the cup despite Maatta. Fleury was incredible. Murray was/is incredible. Guentzal was impressive. Kessel/Crosby/Malkin were themselves.

Could Maatta have been worse? Maybe. But you probably could have swapped him for Dennis Wideman to the same results

[Henry Fool]

Well that doesn't sound like a "careful" dismissal to me, but we'll leave it at that. I just wanted to defend Maatta a bit. It's been a battle for him and he's still young. He doesn't have first pair potential, I wouldn't trade him for Jankowski, or anything that might trigger the fans here.

[Flash Walken]

He also kinda dealt with cancer over that same time period.

I mean, people cut Brodie all sorts of slack for the health issues with his wife, and rightfully so. Maybe some.posters might consider the same thing for a 21 year old defender.

If the roles were reversed I don't think anyone in this board would be looking to revisit the draft.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

If the roles were reversed I don't think anyone in this board would be looking to revisit the draft.

If the roles were reversed Maatta would have about 30 NHL GP and we would be worried about why he can't steal a spot from Matt Bartkowski. And Jankowski probably would have spent half of last year in the NHL like Guentzal. Meanwhile we're not sure if Jankowski will play more games than Tanner Glass and Maatta without having done much on the ice individually is a roster lock on a contender.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

If the roles were reversed I don't think anyone in this board would be looking to revisit the draft.

If the roles were reversed I think it's very likely you'd be speaking ill of Matta just like you said Rasmus Andersson "kind of sucks".

The grass is always greener with you.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

If the roles were reversed I think it's very likely you'd be speaking ill of Matta just like you said Rasmus Andersson "kind of sucks".

The grass is always greener with you.

And you’d still be trying to fight everyone over takes you don’t agree with.

I think what Flash says is true, a lot of Maata’s development has been hurt by some pretty serious obstacles that I don’t think a lot of people give him the deserved credit for. He debuted young and was quite good, but hasn’t been progressing as well the last two seasons.

He’s also incredibly young for a defenceman, has a great amount of experience, and still has potential to get better.

Like him or dislike him, Jankowski still has a lot of work to do before he even gets to the level of Maata. Would I trade one for one? I’m not sure I would based on Calgary’s situation, but if I’m a Penguins fan I’m certainly not sitting there lamenting the fact that we could’ve taken Jankowski.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

He also kinda dealt with cancer over that same time period.

I mean, people cut Brodie all sorts of slack for the health issues with his wife, and rightfully so. Maybe some.posters might consider the same thing for a 21 year old defender.

If the roles were reversed I don't think anyone in this board would be looking to revisit the draft.

A lot of pens fans aren't thrilled with Maatta. Big assumption to try and guess how fans would feel if he was part of this organization

[stemit14]

I can't think of many players drafted in the first round that were considered right off the bat to be a long term project... especially a forward. If I recall correctly that was pretty much the first words out of the mouths of the TSN commentators when the flames made the jankowski picks... "this one is a project".

I truly believe this guy has a ton of potential and could surprise a few people here with how high his ceiling actually is. I just hope he gets out in a position to succeed. Playing him on the 4th line with tanner Glass would not be ideal. He needs some skill to play his style which is a possession/cycle game.

It's funny how Backlund's last two breakout seasons have altered the plans for this team. It's a good thing to have too much depth for sure. But 3 years ago most of us thought backlund would be moved by now, Bennett would be the 2nd line centre, and Jankowski would be starting off as the 3rd line centre. Not that I want to get rid of Backlund cause I think he's awesome and should be re-signed.

It just shows the logjam of skill in the organization at the centre position. Would just like both jankowski and bennett get to play with skilled guys rather thank Brouwer/lazar/F. Hamilton/Glass/Hathaway.




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[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

You are assumjng correlation when there was none. The Penguins won the cup despite Maatta. Fleury was incredible. Murray was/is incredible. Guentzal was impressive. Kessel/Crosby/Malkin were themselves.

Could Maatta have been worse? Maybe. But you probably could have swapped him for Dennis Wideman to the same results

When you're part of back to back cup winning teams, your team doesn't win 'in spite of you'. That's ridiculous. You don't have the margin for error in the playoffs to make backbreaking decisions. They won this year without Letang. That's because everyone else stepped up.

Maata is a good player. He battles. He keeps his head above water for the most part. He does his job. What else do you want?

[Anduril]

SCF PGT Game 1

Lack of skill at D. Guys can't make the necessary passes. Cole and Hainsey always go up the boards with pressure, Maatta can't create the space as well. That's the sort of thing Letang could fix all in his own.

Yeah Kessel was terrible. That was easily his worst game of the playoffs. He tanked the PP too. Thank god we got Schultz back.
Maatta is another guy who is just killing us at times. He would not stop throwing the puck around the boards.. even when it was obvious that the Preds were blocking it up.

Maatta, Hainsey, and Daley all picked the same game to have their worst of the playoffs. Dumo had some bad, unpressured turnovers too. Is there enough gas left to get a 2nd? I don't know...it didn't look great.

Maatta and Daley were -11 on shot diff.

Jake played well again, as did Crosby.
Kunitz was by far our corsi leader with +7....in a game where we had 12 shots.
Can Murray stay healthy enough to keep MAF out?

-Defense - Hainsey and Cole were brutal throughout and Maatta had some of the weakest play in that short span that cost the team big. I feel like we've been saying his mistakes haven't been costing the team lately....tonight they certainly did.

SCF Game 2 PGT

- Stars/Powerplay: I didn't like the game from Geno, Sid, or Kessel. A lot more effort is needed from them and they are the reason our PP was brutal. No movement because they were not engaged in wanting to win the battle on the PP. It almost cost us the game if not for Murray/Jake.

- Maatta: BRUTAL game. Good lord. Back to back brutal games.

I can see Hags for Wilson. Wilson was a non-factor.

Ruddy for Maatta, I'd like to see but I know we won't.

On another note, HUGE minus to Maatta. I'm sorry, but the mere thought that we got this kid locked up to a multi-year deal at a 4 million dollar a year cap hit is infuriating. I still can't get the image of him getting schooled on that first goal out of my head. It's not just the fact that he was caught looking at the puck and made to look like a fool, but his complete lack of effort in trying to recover on his mistake was the icing on the cake. Barely looks like an NHLer out there.

And a couple more from Game 7 PGT from the ECF

- Last night was a perfect example of why Maatta is so polarizing. Played well to start the game, then just slowly fell apart. He kept it together somehow though and his mistakes didn't cost the team, thankfully.

**** this guy. Seriously. When he's at his best, he's an average defensemanwho isn't making mistakes. At his worst, well, he can single handily lose a game.

This isn't to say anything in particular about Jankowski vs Maatta.
But you can certainly win in spite of some players even playing in prominent roles. Especially when you have superstars the likes of Crosby and Malkin and incredible goaltending.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

And you’d still be trying to fight everyone over takes you don’t agree with.

This is pretty rich coming from you who spends an inordinate amount of time doing exactly this for both hockey and non-sports related topics, often just to see if people can defend a position regardless whether you agree with it or not.


I think the point here is at the time people were screaming bloody murder about a few players we didn't take at the time and now it's a very subjective notion.

I agree Matta has had some big obstacles to play through but I still think if he were here people like Flash would be much harder on him. I think at the end of the day the Flames knew Jankowski would be a project and they've done everything the right way in his development.

It's certainly not looking like as big a reach as it was at the time.

[Calgary4LIfe]

It sucks that Maatta has had to deal with injuries and with cancer - that is seriously messed up for such a young dude.

However, you can't just ignore those issues and disregard them. Very likely he would have to deal with those issues as a Flames' player as well. Whether you argue that his growth has been stunted by what he has thus far had to undergo or not, the fact of the matter is that Maatta is who he is at this point, and a tonne of Penguin fans wish he wasn't on the team.

Maatta has the ability to get better given his age, but he hasn't been showing any signs of improvement for a while. It would be interesting if a change of scenery would do him well or not.

In my opinion, I stick with Jankowski. Though he has yet to become an NHL regular, anyone is hard-pressed not to see the potential that he has at the moment. He has constantly improved every single season since his draft and has constantly taken more responsibilities while doing so.

In my opinion, he is the type of player that the 'new NHL' is all about - a possession monster that can play in all areas of the ice, and in all situations. That is what he is trending to be, and I think that is extremely valuable. In time, I see him like a Backlund in that regard, but in a much bigger body and with that giant reach.

That reach is so money in the NHL. I love how he uses that reach not only to protect the puck (and intercept/break-up opposing passes), but how he uses that reach to make plays. Lemieux and Jagr type of plays with it (and whoa! calm down - not saying he will be as good as those guys). He can just make plays around guys.

Also, BOO on all you guys for not mentioning the incredible TT. Teuvo Terravainen. For me, that was THE guy to compare Jankowski to, as many people were very happy that he dropped to the Flames that year. He was (at the time) that coveted 1st line center prospect. At any rate, I would rather keep Jankowski and gamble that he will indeed be better than any of the other names listed that were talked about around that draft. Maatta is questionable at this point as anything more than a 3rd pairing defencemen, though I would say he is most assuredly an NHL'er. Girgensons is a 3rd line center at best - and more like a 4th line center over the last 2 seasons. Hertl doesn't put up a lot of points or anything, and that in itself is a bit bewildering considering who he gets to play with in SJ and his amazing 4 goal night (though I don't remember him being being talked about much on these forums at the time of the draft). I would say Teravainen is officially a winger. Looks like he is trending up a bit, but I don't think he is anything really special either.

Out of the bunch, Hertl is probably the guy that I would most be 'tempted' by with trading Jankowski for. I still would rather gamble on Jankowski's upside, and call me a homer all you like. I think this kid is going to be a huge part of this team, and within a couple of seasons, I am betting he will be thought of as an important core piece. I think he has the ability to dominate possession and he can create a tonne of offence, especially given some decent line mates.

[edslunch]

Feaster put a ten year timeline on Jankowski being the best player in the draft. Still too early to evaluate

[Gaudfather]

Originally Posted by edslunch

Feaster put a ten year timeline on Jankowski being the best player in the draft. Still too early to evaluate

But trending nicely!