[News] New Arena - Plan B - Victoria Park

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by Fire

How would they be costing themselves hundreds of millions of dollars if they sold the Flames for hundred of millions of dollars to an interested party willing to have the team play in Seattle? Sounds like they would make out like bandits. The Flames owners don't own the Flames to make money, you don't really think they would remain the owners of the team if they moved out of town do you?

If they moved the buyer would have to pay the relocation fee, which pretty much automatically lowers any bid. If prospective buyers know the Flames owners want to sell, they're going to get lowballed obviously. And if they wanna remain owners and move, the relocation fee again cuts into their pockets, plus going from #1 sports choice in a hockey mad market to at best #5 sports choice in a somewhat unknown hockey market (assuming Seattle)...obviously that's not increasing the bottom line.

But all kind of a moot point to me. Unless the Flames owners are CalgaryNEXT or bust, or unless it's the Edmonton deal for an arena only or they move/sell, they'll get a new arena in Vic Park, and most of the comments by King and Burke will be footnotes in a pretty standard negotiation, at least for these things.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

What meltdown? The laughter at the Flames owners costing themselves hundreds of millions of dollars to move to a worse market? It'll be absolutely hilarious to most of us.

Yup, you'd be laughing all right. Laughing without a NHL team and not another one on the horizon. How exactly would the ownership lose hundreds of millions of dollars? And what makes Calgary a better market than Seattle anyway? I'd imagine the owners would love to get a 35% boost just from the dollar alone. I think you are grossly underestimating the Seattle market and over-estimating the Calgary market.

[Funkhouser]

Originally Posted by Par

I see the dam irony there, Quebec is a burden on Canada and Alberta, I always wonder what is the point of having Quebec as Province, it is just a waste and resource sucking place.

Off topic to the thread, and while I can certainly understand people's frustration towards QC politicians and the equalization system, these things do not constitute the entirety of an area or its residents.

Replace Quebec with any other group and you'll see how xenophobic/bigoted this comment is. Painting an entire province with the same brush is pretty offensive and small-minded in my opinion. But what should I expect from an Albertan (see what I did there!)


On another note, KK and the Flames owners have quickly eaten up much of the good will the organization has built over decades. Love the Flames, but they leave and I wouldn't shed a tear. Hold the line Nenshi!!

[Northendzone]

Good grief, is there anyone in charge of media relations over at the dome?

Burke reintegrated what king said, and king shoes some backpedalling.....get on the same page guys

[Reggie Dunlop]

Originally Posted by RM14

Imagine the irony of Quebec stealing the Flames from Alberta after years and years of receiving provincial equalization payments to support their have not status and tax burdens. The same pool of funds in which they used to build a 100% taxpayer funded new arena for themselves in Quebec city.

LOL, what?

That's not how Equalization works. This is a really bad trope that keeps being trotted out.

Your inferred contention that Alberta taxpayers paid for the Videotron Centre are insane.

[RougeUnderoos]

I'm surprised this part hasn't come up yet.

The higher taxation rates in Canada are also unfair for NHL players on Canadian teams. Burke said he believes athletes should be eligible for some sort of tax break.

"These guys make big money but they have short careers," Burke said. "If you're a doctor, you might make a good living for 45 years.… We're going to have to figure out how to tax the athletes equitably for the Canadian teams to be able to compete.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...next-1.4150420

So what is he trying to do, become the villain of the organization here? We know he's a smart guy. This is something a stupid person says. What's the angle here?

[RM14]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

LOL, what?

That's not how Equalization works. This is a really bad trope that keeps being trotted out.

Your inferred contention that Alberta taxpayers paid for the Videotron Centre are insane.

I already admitted I don't know the granularity of how it works. Just weird how Quebec receives 11 Billion this year, but has the money to fund their arena. How come they cant put that 500 million towards other social benefits that the equalization is supposed to be for.

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by RM14

I already admitted I don't know the granularity of how it works. Just weird how Quebec receives 11 Billion this year, but has the money to fund their arena. How come they cant put that 500 million towards other social benefits that the equalization is supposed to be for.

I don't know. How about you start a thread on it or look it up?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

Very sneaky by the Flames trying the good cop/ bad cop scenario. So scripted.

Exactly. I can't believe how many people think that King was throwing him under the bus, or however you want to colour it.

Burke has the reputation of shooting from the hip. So he goes out and says things a little more aggressively than King can. Then King can say 'he is not the official spokesperson'.

So it gets said but the Flames didn't officially say it. Pretty straight-forward IMO.

Doesn't matter whether you agree with what Burke said, he got a message out.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

why

Not hard to figure out. Some posters on here are in it simply for the drama and the stirring of the pot, nothing more.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Originally Posted by RM14

I already admitted I don't know the granularity of how it works. Just weird how Quebec receives 11 Billion this year, but has the money to fund their arena. How come they cant put that 500 million towards other social benefits that the equalization is supposed to be for.

This argument should probably go to another thread. Equalization is federal money. It's not one province cutting a cheque to another. Anyway, Videotron Centre is mostly a municipal/provincial initiative.

QC may get another NHL team, but it won't the relocated Flames.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

What meltdown? The laughter at the Flames owners costing themselves hundreds of millions of dollars to move to a worse market? It'll be absolutely hilarious to most of us.

First of all, I think there is virtually no chance that the Flames are moving.

But your assertion that the owners would be costing themselves hundreds of millions of dollars by doing so is what is hilarious.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

I'm surprised this part hasn't come up yet.



http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...next-1.4150420

So what is he trying to do, become the villain of the organization here? We know he's a smart guy. This is something a stupid person says. What's the angle here?

This has to be one of the stupidest things I've ever read on this site. As soon as Gaudreau saves somebody's life I'll be sure to be at his side helping him get a tax break. Until then I'll continue to believe players are grossly overpaid and a huge part of the broken business model nik was talking about in terms of the cost / value ratio.

Burke is so out of touch it's beyond comprehension. He sounds like basically just an idiot.

[Stay Golden]

The Flames should start bearing their teeth with the mayor. Either he sees the economic value with the Flames or he doesn't. But they should start pushing that button. To date Nenshi has copped out entirely saying it is up to the Flames, everytime the subject of concerts comes up he ducks it, everytime the subject of new arena comes up he ducks it. Saying we havnt been approached. BS total BS. When clearly the Flames have talked to mayor several times. He has said in the past the Flames have economic value but his actions are proving otherwise.
We have an interesting situation Owners that do not want to foot the entire bill and a Mayor that feels the city should not pay a dime outside of street/area infrastucture. The estimated numbers have changed over the past 2 years. To me it seems to be the Flames are willing to foot about 60%???
But the Mayor better realize contributing 0% or less than 10% of the building itself is not going to fly.
This is just my opinion but I feel the Flames should put up 70% , the province and city should put up the rest.

[OldDutch]

Flames moving to Quebec City, and you take him seriously? The guy is doing his best troll job to stir the pot.

I'll one up you Brian. How about Flames are moving to Saskatoon!? They could totally do it...like for reals. All that corporate money. In Saskatoon Potash Corp can own 20 suites and that uranium outfit can own the other 20, and Brad Wall can have one, oh and 2 for that corner gas guy.

Just like In Quebec, Bombadier can own 30, Quebecor can own 10, the mob can own 10.

So many options so little time!

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

First of all, I think there is virtually no chance that the Flames are moving.

But your assertion that the owners would be costing themselves hundreds of millions of dollars by doing so is what is hilarious.

They would be costing themselves hundreds of millions in lost potential profit over several years.
There's no way Seattle's or Quebec's market would come close to Calgary's.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

They would be costing themselves hundreds of millions in lost potential profit over several years.
There's no way Seattle's or Quebec's market would come close to Calgary's.

Two things:

1) a sweet arena deal can go a long way to covering any difference in gate revenues between Calgary and Quebec, and

2) By selling, they realize their value in the team and can re-invest the money anywhere.

They would not lose anything, never mind hundreds of millions of dollars.

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

I'm surprised this part hasn't come up yet.



http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...next-1.4150420

So what is he trying to do, become the villain of the organization here? We know he's a smart guy. This is something a stupid person says. What's the angle here?

They can't save a nest egg? Also they are unemployable able bodied men at age 35 or 40? Huh?

[the_only_turek_fan]

Hmmmmm all the Keynesian left wingers have now become tax payer advocates?

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

The Flames should start bearing their teeth with the mayor. Either he sees the economic value with the Flames or he doesn't. But they should start pushing that button. To date Nenshi has copped out entirely saying it is up to the Flames, everytime the subject of concerts comes up he ducks it, everytime the subject of new arena comes up he ducks it. Saying we havnt been approached. BS total BS. When clearly the Flames have talked to mayor several times. He has said in the past the Flames have economic value but his actions are proving otherwise.
We have an interesting situation Owners that do not want to foot the entire bill and a Mayor that feels the city should not pay a dime outside of street/area infrastucture. The estimated numbers have changed over the past 2 years. To me it seems to be the Flames are willing to foot about 60%???
But the Mayor better realize contributing 0% or less than 10% of the building itself is not going to fly.
This is just my opinion but I feel the Flames should put up 70% , the province and city should put up the rest.

Edit - not signalling SG out specifically, as others have also focused on Nenshi... but I'm not exactly sure why people put Nenshi at the epicenter of their ire?

Sure he has been vocal about his feelings about CalgaryNext, but has been pretty reasonable in suggesting that the Flames organization should present and alternative solution and how taxpayers would benefit from public monies going into a private corporation.

Secondly, every council member has an equal vote...

Nenshi's vote counts as one, but also as the tie breaker - if it is required. There are 14 other votes aside from Nenshi's vote - If the calculus is as skewed as what Burke suggests with his “I think most intelligent people get this.” comment, then convincing the majority of councilors in office to put public money into a new area should be a piece of cake right?
.