COVID-19 Vaccine Talk, 2nd Dose

[opendoor]

Basically the way it worked was, Pfizer and Moderna made BA.1 vaccines, tested them, and started manufacturing them. But then the US (rightly, I'd argue) told them they didn't want to roll out a new vaccine targeting a mostly extinct variant, so they told them to reformulate in order to target BA.4 and BA.5, which are the current dominant variants. But there aren't a lot of those doses manufactured yet, so much like in the early days of the rollout, the US is probably going to get prioritized for the latest formulation, leaving most other countries with the BA.1 version for the time being.

Is there a huge difference? Not necessarily. The BA.4/5 one will do a bit better job at preventing infection and might perform better at preventing severe disease, but at the same time I don't even think it has been trialed in humans yet for immunogenicity (they're doing it more like they do for flu vaccines, where they don't do trials every year).

If this was a one and done vaccine, then the difference might be more relevant. But higher risk people should be getting boosted regularly, and all the vaccines will provide temporary protection. And for lower risk people, protection against severe disease after a 3rd dose of the original vaccine seems to be holding up over longer periods without much waning, so I don't know that what type of 4th dose that kind of person gets (or if they even get a 4th dose in the near future) will have much of an impact on severity.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Been kind of out the loop lately.

Had covid at start of May. Have 3 full doses. AZ then Pfizer then Moderna. 3rd dose was in December.

When should I get a booster? Another month or so? That’d be 5 months since I had covid and coincide with fall/winter pretty good I think.

[bagofpucks]

We were in the same boat, covid in May, last shot in December and it seemed the only thing that mattered was the booster was 5 months after your last shot. We got ours last week with the same idea that it would give us some protection for the fall and winter.

[MoneyGuy]

Just booked our second boosters for tomorrow for three months away starting Oct. 6.

[Ashartus]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Been kind of out the loop lately.

Had covid at start of May. Have 3 full doses. AZ then Pfizer then Moderna. 3rd dose was in December.

When should I get a booster? Another month or so? That’d be 5 months since I had covid and coincide with fall/winter pretty good I think.

I think the current recommendation is 6 months after last booster or last infection.

[nickerjones]

I am in the States for work and just booked one of the new boosters (and flu shot at same time).

My 3rd shot in Dec, Had Covid for the 2nd time in early May. Wife and Kid both had it 3 weeks ago. I was around both for extended periods and did not get reinfected.


I am American but a Canadian Permanent Resident. I was not asked for my passport or insurance info when I booked online at Walgreens. I'll update if they ask in store. Might be an opportunity for Calgarians to drive down to Montana and get the BA4/5 booster if wanted.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by nickerjones

I am in the States for work and just booked one of the new boosters (and flu shot at same time).

My 3rd shot in Dec, Had Covid for the 2nd time in early May. Wife and Kid both had it 3 weeks ago. I was around both for extended periods and did not get reinfected.


I am American but a Canadian Permanent Resident. I was not asked for my passport or insurance info when I booked online at Walgreens. I'll update if they ask in store. Might be an opportunity for Calgarians to drive down to Montana and get the BA4/5 booster if wanted.

I'd love an update when done. My wife is going to Ontario next month, and is thinking about driving down to the States to get one while she is there, much shorter drive!

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I'd love an update when done. My wife is going to Ontario next month, and is thinking about driving down to the States to get one while she is there, much shorter drive!

I'd expect that next month anyone in Canada that wants the new Moderna booster will be able to get it. There won't be a need to travel for it. If I'm not mistaken BC is opening up the booster program in mid-September and other provinces won't be far behind.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

I'd expect that next month anyone in Canada that wants the new Moderna booster will be able to get it. There won't be a need to travel for it. If I'm not mistaken BC is opening up the booster program in mid-September and other provinces won't be far behind.

Ya, but the Moderna is targeted to BA1/2, whereas the Pfizer in the US is for 4/5, which is what is circulating now. She's done more research than me on it, and seems to think it will offer her better protection. Not a guarantee she will go get it, but looking at the options.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Ya, but the Moderna is targeted to BA1/2, whereas the Pfizer in the US is for 4/5, which is what is circulating now. She's done more research than me on it, and seems to think it will offer her better protection. Not a guarantee she will go get it, but looking at the options.

We should probably trust our Public Health leaders, top Doctors and Government when it comes to the vaccines they are offering to us. If they are slow or unwilling to approve Pfizer maybe it is with good reasoning. Trust the science and get the first shot available.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

We should probably trust our Public Health leaders, top Doctors and Government when it comes to the vaccines they are offering to us. If they are slow or unwilling to approve Pfizer maybe it is with good reasoning. Trust the science and get the first shot available.

I know you just said that to be a dick(success!), but because our governments have abandoned even the platitudes of "protecting the vulnerable" we now have to take matters into our own hands. If we can do what we can to stay out of the hospital, which is what is also best thing for Canada, since apparently a $13 billion surplus isn't enough to do one ####ing thing to shore up our system, I hope you can understand our desire to avoid ending up there. Seeking out the best protection possible makes a lot of sense.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I know you just said that to be a dick(success!), but because our governments have abandoned even the platitudes of "protecting the vulnerable" we now have to take matters into our own hands. If we can do what we can to stay out of the hospital, which is what is also best thing for Canada, since apparently a $13 billion surplus isn't enough to do one ####ing thing to shore up our system, I hope you can understand our desire to avoid ending up there. Seeking out the best protection possible makes a lot of sense.

The Government and Health Canada are providing us with the tools necessary to protect ourselves though. You don't need to resort to vaccine tourism to stay safe.

After a thorough and independent scientific review of the evidence, Health Canada has determined that the bivalent Moderna Spikevax booster is safe and effective. Clinical trial results showed that a booster dose of the bivalent Moderna Spikevax vaccine triggers a strong immune response against both Omicron (BA.1) and the original SARS-CoV-2 virus strain. It was also found to generate a good immune response against the Omicron BA.4 and BA.5 subvariants, and is expected to extend the durability of protection.

Vaccination continues to be one of the most effective ways to protect families, communities and ourselves against COVID-19. Evidence indicates that the vaccines used in Canada are very effective at preventing severe illness, hospitalization and death from COVID-19. Keeping COVID-19 vaccinations up-to-date, including getting booster doses as recommended, will help protect an individual against serious illness and other complications of COVID-19 infection.

Health Canada has placed terms and conditions on the authorization requiring Moderna to continue providing information to Health Canada on the safety and efficacy of the bivalent vaccine. This will provide the Department with more data from ongoing studies and real-world use to ensure that the benefits of the vaccine continue to outweigh any risks, as well as to detect any potential new safety signals.

https://www.canada.ca/en/health-cana...and-older.html

“It’s essentially two vaccines in one,” Health Canada’s chief medical adviser, Supriya Sharma, said at a technical briefing Thursday. “While the vaccine was designed to more specifically target the Omicron BA.1 subvariant, we know that this vaccine also generates a good immune response against the Omicron subvariants BA.4 and BA.5 that have more recently emerged.”

NACI recommends that anyone 18 years or older who is eligible for a booster receive a bivalent version. The committee said in a statement on Thursday that children aged 12 to 17 who are moderately to severely immunocompromised or otherwise at “high risk of severe outcomes” from COVID-19 can be offered a bivalent vaccine “off-label.”

Dr. Sharma said the vaccine authorized on Thursday has been studied in humans and was found to be “almost identical” to the original Moderna COVID-19 vaccine in terms of safety.

Isaac Bogoch, an infectious diseases specialist at the University of Toronto, emphasized that while BA.1 and BA.5 are different sublineages of Omicron, they’re both still Omicron. He said the BA.1-tailored vaccine is “a lot closer” to the strains of the virus that are currently circulating than vaccines designed for the original strain of COVID-19.

The newly approved vaccine, he added, is “going to be an important vaccine as we move through the fall, and as we will see an expected rise in COVID cases at some point in the fall and in the winter.”

Dr. Bogoch noted that a recent study from Portugal showed that people who had BA.1 or BA.2 infections had meaningful protection against BA.5 – though he added that vaccine immunity and immunity from infections are not identical.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/poli...-that-targets/

[Fuzz]

First off, why do you care?

Second, our province, unlike others, has a very restricted group of people who can get Evushield. If we were in, say, Ontario, she could get it, which would improve her protection. So saying our governments are offering the best treatments available is not true. I don't know why Alberta is being like this, but it negatively affects us. So if we can have the best vaccine available, why wouldn't we seek it out? You'll forgive me if I've lost a little faith in our government and it's institutions to do the right thing over the past few years, becuase their actions have been lacking. Staring down the gun barrel of Dainelle Smith isn't really reassuring, either.

Life has been pretty ####ing bleak for us, and anything that makes it a little better is well worth the effort. I get that you don't really give a ####, but the vulnerable still wear masks, avoid large crowds, and generally avoid going out to events and participating in society. But hey, keep being a dick about it. Really appreciate your input.

[calgarygeologist]

Are you certain that Evusheld eligibility is different between AB and ON? I looked at the websites and it seems like the eligibility requirements are the same between Alberta and Ontario.

[Knut]

Do we know when we will be able to get the Bivalent version of the vaccine yet ?

I can not seem to find any specific details about it.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

Are you certain that Evusheld eligibility is different between AB and ON? I looked at the websites and it seems like the eligibility requirements are the same between Alberta and Ontario.

Yes, Ontario offers to all organ transplant recipients, Alberta it is only a few specific types. I think Quebec is the same, but I haven't looked.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Yes, Ontario offers to all organ transplant recipients, Alberta it is only a few specific types. I think Quebec is the same, but I haven't looked.

It might be that the way the two Health Authorities have put together their documentation but it pretty much seems the same.

Potentially the only difference might be the Tier 3 priority on the solid organ transplant list in Ontario. Tier 3 is any non lung organ transplant beyond 6 months for under 60 year old people. This doesn't seem to be included in Alberta as they only have older than 60 for any non lung transplant beyond 6 months which is Tier 2 in Ontario.

[nickerjones]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I'd love an update when done. My wife is going to Ontario next month, and is thinking about driving down to the States to get one while she is there, much shorter drive!

They only asked if I had insurance. I told them NO. They said thanks and proceeded to give me the shot. No further questions. If you're wanting to get the updated Pfizer now it doesn't seem like places like Walgreens/CVS/Walmart are going to go out of their way to find reasons not to give it to you.

[Manhattanboy]

Will be in Palm Springs next week.

Is the Pfizer BA4/5 now widely available in drug stores? Thanks

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Will be in Palm Springs next week.

Is the Pfizer BA4/5 now widely available in drug stores? Thanks

Yes, particularly CVS and Walgreens I've seen tons of appointments for both. Getting mine today.

My first three shots were Moderna but doing Pfizer this time as I've heard mixing and matching can be beneficial.