COVID-19 Vaccine Talk, 2nd Dose

[GGG]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

One of my wife's close friends called EMS for her elementary age son having chest pain. Diagnosed as arrhythmia, 1 day after second Pfizer dose, with no previous medical history. Medical staff say timing is a coincidence and it won't be reported as a potential vaccine reaction.

My plan of getting our kids second doses took a huge hit - my wife and I are both vaccinated but she was already hesitant about getting it for the kids. They do have their first doses already.

The first thing is that medical advice consistently recommends vaccinating against children. So to go against that advice I think you would want some pretty good evidence of why the general advice does not apply to you.

The first thing I would do is determine if arrhythmia is a side affect of the vaccine for any age group. Next determine the natural occurrence of arrhythmia in the child population. Try to get a feal for the odds of each. But this is a difficult task as if you follow the same logic as above Vaccines cause autism and we know they don’t.

For the first step the UK had a pretty good study that was interesting in that it found the issues with the Moderna vaccine as opposed to the Pfizer.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01630-0

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by GGG

The first thing is that medical advice consistently recommends vaccinating against children. So to go against that advice I think you would want some pretty good evidence of why the general advice does not apply to you.

The first thing I would do is determine if arrhythmia is a side affect of the vaccine for any age group. Next determine the natural occurrence of arrhythmia in the child population. Try to get a feal for the odds of each. But this is a difficult task as if you follow the same logic as above Vaccines cause autism and we know they don’t.

For the first step the UK had a pretty good study that was interesting in that it found the issues with the Moderna vaccine as opposed to the Pfizer.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01630-0

I agree with all of that, and am mostly just venting. Some medical staff did a real disservice to my wife's friend - they should have just said something like "it's almost certainly a coincidence but we will report it as a potential reaction" and this wouldn't be an issue. That difference took someone who was strongly pro-vax and made her now pretty untrusting of vaccines in general.

For my own kids I'm still planning to have them vaccinated again, although we did decide to wait a bit as they both tested positive about a month after their first dose, so it seems to me to make sense to wait the 8 weeks after those positive tests. I would say my concern for potential covid effects on them is low given no medical history/conditions, 1 dose already, and antibodies from infection, along with the history of a very mild infection the first time.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by GGG

The first thing is that medical advice consistently recommends vaccinating against children.

My wife is on the pill instead of the shot, and it has worked well for us.

[You Need a Thneed]

So my kids are now eligible for boosters, I imagine it’s still a good idea to take them in?

[ikaris]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

So my kids are now eligible for boosters, I imagine it’s still a good idea to take them in?

Considering how generally harmless COVID is for most children, probably not.

https://www.canada.ca/content/dam/ph...-years-age.pdf

Note: No recommendations for booster doses for the general adolescent population 12 to 17 years of age are being made at this time.

For reference the VE that NACI references seems to be trumped by more recent data (although a preprint) with respect to Omicron:

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....25.22271454v1

They do say if your kid is in a higher risk group then they should.

[Scroopy Noopers]

To portray that as “not a good idea” is really reaching.

Likely not necessary (knowing absolutely nothing about the individual being discussed), sure.

[justkidding]

Has there been any indication that boosters, 4th shots in particular, will be happening anytime soon? Has it been determined that the 4th shot is required? My parents are both over 80 and they are coming up to 6 months since their 3rd booster shot.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Originally Posted by justkidding

Has there been any indication that boosters, 4th shots in particular, will be happening anytime soon? Has it been determined that the 4th shot is required? My parents are both over 80 and they are coming up to 6 months since their 3rd booster shot.

Moderna has submitted to the FDA for a 4th shot for all adults while Pfizer has submitted for a 4th shot for anyone for 65. Generally, Canada is about a month or two behind the US so I could see something relatively soon.

[Amethyst]

What if you're travelling somewhere that requires a vaccination Alberta won't give you? For example, I got my "booster" way back in September. Should I be worried that it will be considered "too long ago" if I want to travel this summer? Is there somewhere I could pay for a vaccination for travel purposes (as I've done for other travel-related vaccines in the past)?

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Amethyst

What if you're travelling somewhere that requires a vaccination Alberta won't give you? For example, I got my "booster" way back in September. Should I be worried that it will be considered "too long ago" if I want to travel this summer? Is there somewhere I could pay for a vaccination for travel purposes (as I've done for other travel-related vaccines in the past)?

Are there countries that require a "recent" booster in order to be able to enter? I know that the EU has their booster requirement but it doesn't seem to matter if it was a long time ago or not. The booster dose doesn't yet expire after 9 months like the primary dosage does.

[Amethyst]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

Are there countries that require a "recent" booster in order to be able to enter? I know that the EU has their booster requirement but it doesn't seem to matter if it was a long time ago or not. The booster dose doesn't yet expire after 9 months like the primary dosage does.

Not that I know of, but it seems like the country I'm going to is "picky," so I wonder if that will change.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Originally Posted by Amethyst

Not that I know of, but it seems like the country I'm going to is "picky," so I wonder if that will change.

It can't change until said country authorizes a fourth dose at the very least. And likely they wouldn't until a fourth dose is more widely authorized, otherwise nobody will visit the country.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

So my kids are now eligible for boosters, I imagine it’s still a good idea to take them in?

Originally Posted by ikaris

Considering how generally harmless COVID is for most children, probably not.

https://www.canada.ca/content/dam/ph...-years-age.pdf

Note: No recommendations for booster doses for the general adolescent population 12 to 17 years of age are being made at this time.

You are so f--king full of sh-t that it is infuriating.

The question boiled down to "Good idea, yes or no?" and based off of a "No recommendations made" statement which is neutral, you used said neutral statement to answer "Probably not" which is a negative answer. Then you link a goddamned preprint which doesn't even back your position up:

---
Results
From December 13, 2021 to January 30, 2022, among 852,384 fully-vaccinated children 12-17 years and 365,502 children 5-11 years, VE against cases declined:
- from 66% (95% CI: 64%, 67%) to 51% (95% CI: 48%, 54%) for those 12-17 years and,
- from 68% (95% CI: 63%, 72%) to 12% (95% CI: 6%, 16%) for those 5-11 years.

During the January 24-30 week, VE for:
- children 11 years was 11% (95%CI -3%, 23%) and
- for those age 12 was 67% (95% CI: 62%, 71%).

We already know Omicron has better vaccine escape for infection so cases are not as critical as protecting against severe outcomes like hospitalization. Even then, the VE for case prevention in the 12-17 group is still showing to be significant.


VE against hospitalization declined changed
- from 85% (95% CI: 63%, 95%) to 73% (95% CI: 53%, 87%) for children 12-17 years, and
- from 100% (95% CI: -189%, 100%) to 48% (95% CI: -12%, 75%) for those 5-11 years.

48-73% effectiveness in preventing hospitalization, those are great numbers.
---

Learn the significance of how VE serves to explain real-world probabilities and stop posting bullsh-t.

[You Need a Thneed]

Boosters for my kids, 12 and almost 15, happening tomorrow.

With new wave probably coming around, will be good to hopefully keep them from getting sick.

We did already have COVID go through our house, but only my son had any symptoms (tested positive)

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

Boosters for my kids, 12 and almost 15, happening tomorrow.

With new wave probably coming around, will be good to hopefully keep them from getting sick.

We did already have COVID go through our house, but only my son had any symptoms (tested positive)

Is your 12 year old a 2009?

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by Barnes

Is your 12 year old a 2009?

Yes. He got his first two doses at 11.5 years old.

[ikaris]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

You are so f--king full of sh-t that it is infuriating.

The question boiled down to "Good idea, yes or no?" and based off of a "No recommendations made" statement which is neutral, you used said neutral statement to answer "Probably not" which is a negative answer. Then you link a goddamned preprint which doesn't even back your position up:

---
Results
From December 13, 2021 to January 30, 2022, among 852,384 fully-vaccinated children 12-17 years and 365,502 children 5-11 years, VE against cases declined:
- from 66% (95% CI: 64%, 67%) to 51% (95% CI: 48%, 54%) for those 12-17 years and,
- from 68% (95% CI: 63%, 72%) to 12% (95% CI: 6%, 16%) for those 5-11 years.

During the January 24-30 week, VE for:
- children 11 years was 11% (95%CI -3%, 23%) and
- for those age 12 was 67% (95% CI: 62%, 71%).

We already know Omicron has better vaccine escape for infection so cases are not as critical as protecting against severe outcomes like hospitalization. Even then, the VE for case prevention in the 12-17 group is still showing to be significant.


VE against hospitalization declined changed
- from 85% (95% CI: 63%, 95%) to 73% (95% CI: 53%, 87%) for children 12-17 years, and
- from 100% (95% CI: -189%, 100%) to 48% (95% CI: -12%, 75%) for those 5-11 years.

48-73% effectiveness in preventing hospitalization, those are great numbers.
---

Learn the significance of how VE serves to explain real-world probabilities and stop posting bullsh-t.

So posting from NACI is bull#### now? Go ahead, boost your children. Doesn't mean everyone else has to.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by ikaris

So posting from NACI is bull#### now? Go ahead, boost your children. Doesn't mean everyone else has to.

Again, you said that it “probably wasn’t a good idea”. Which is complete nonsense, and isn’t an opinion that is backed up by any data.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by ikaris

So posting from NACI is bull#### now? Go ahead, boost your children. Doesn't mean everyone else has to.

Posting something from NACI doesn’t mean sh-t if you’re too stupid to understand that “no recommendation” doesn’t mean “not recommended”, it means they’re neutral on the subject and people are free to do so or not.

But you’re not too stupid, you’re being intentionally dishonest. That’s worse.

[ikaris]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Again, you said that it “probably wasn’t a good idea”. Which is complete nonsense, and isn’t an opinion that is backed up by any data.

The ethics of mandating vaccination for healthy children are not so cut and dry which you and others claim.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...111/bioe.13015