Anti-Human installation? More like welcome change at Kensington Safeway.

[Tacopuck]

Originally Posted by worth

Additionally, these structures take away from the sense of community we are trying to build. I think a lot of us have romantic ideas of European squares where locals hang out. That's part of what makes a city interesting and beautiful. Anti-human installations are hostile to that idea.

Problem is this is private property (I'm assuming since Safety went and just did it) and the business that occupies the private property is being effected by the people occupying their privately owned space. They are under no obligation to make it a public square type space.

You could make the argument that having people chill and hang out in their public space may lead to higher sales of the adjacent store, but since they are having customers complaining about the people occupying the space I'm assuming its having a bigger negative impact than a positive one to their bottom line (businesses in general try and limit expenditures if they dont have an ROI or business case behind them).

Why is it Safeway's responsibility to ensure panhandlers and homeless have a place to hang out. Safeway does plenty of other philanthropic and charitable programs, they shouldn't be chastised for trying to operate in the best interest for their business.

[PepsiFree]

Anti-human installations are scummy, period. Anti-human and anti-community.

Maybe if certain members of our community didn’t spend so much time being afraid of people who are of a lower class than they are, then we could stop worrying about putting in anti-human installations because heaven forbid you get solicited walking into a store.

It’s not those that struggle with homelessness or income that make our communities worse, it’s the people that fear, hate, and look down on those people.

[nik-]

They're ugly, but I hope they work. That place gets pretty annoying.

Lets not act like we've lost a jewel here. It's a row of brutalist benches on a concrete slab.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by worth

The problem I have with this is that it doesn’t do anything to help solve the problem. It just pushes people to find other areas to congregate, where more anti-human structures will be built. If Safeway/Sobeys wants to help instead of making it someone else’s problem, maybe they could partner with the city to fundraise for social programs, substance abuse programs, low income housing etc.

The people that these structures are meant to remove are some of the most vulnerable in our city. Pushing them to some other area by creating these installations will only separate them further when we need to be doing our best to support them.

Additionally, these structures take away from the sense of community we are trying to build. I think a lot of us have romantic ideas of European squares where locals hang out. That's part of what makes a city interesting and beautiful. Anti-human installations are hostile to that idea.

Eff this opinion so hard. It's not Safeway's role to take their hard-earned money, thereby making them less profitable than their competition, to help lowlifes. Those bums have been costing them money for years. Maybe the people that live inner-city are used to running a panhandler gauntlet when they need to pick up some milk at 8:30, but to everybody else it's extremely off putting. There is no doubt whatsoever these bums cost that store customers, and now you want them to spend even more money on the bums? Not their job, dude.

Safeway should endeavor to attract customers to their store. These people are completely counter to that. There is nothing romantic about having toothless bums accosting you. It sucks they are pushing them to be somebody else's problem, but TS.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by worth

The problem I have with this is that it doesn’t do anything to help solve the problem. It just pushes people to find other areas to congregate, where more anti-human structures will be built. If Safeway/Sobeys wants to help instead of making it someone else’s problem, maybe they could partner with the city to fundraise for social programs, substance abuse programs, low income housing etc.

The people that these structures are meant to remove are some of the most vulnerable in our city. Pushing them to some other area by creating these installations will only separate them further when we need to be doing our best to support them.

Additionally, these structures take away from the sense of community we are trying to build. I think a lot of us have romantic ideas of European squares where locals hang out. That's part of what makes a city interesting and beautiful. Anti-human installations are hostile to that idea.

I think you are confusing a Calgary problem with a Safeway problem. Safeway has their bottom line to worry about and if it's driving customers away they have to do what they want to do. Safeway is a grocery store so I'm not exactly sure why you would think they need to be considering the implications for the homeless people as it's not their problem at the end of the day.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Anti-human installations are scummy, period. Anti-human and anti-community.

Maybe if certain members of our community didn’t spend so much time being afraid of people who are of a lower class than they are, then we could stop worrying about putting in anti-human installations because heaven forbid you get solicited walking into a store.

It’s not those that struggle with homelessness or income that make our communities worse, it’s the people that fear, hate, and look down on those people.

Something tells me you don't visit this Safeway 3 times a week like some of us do.

[Bigtime]

I do visit multiple times a week and have never had any issues. What am I doing wrong?

I bike there and lock up at the crappy racks right by these planters, I walk there and pass by everybody, and sometimes I even drive.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I think you are confusing a Calgary problem with a Safeway problem. Safeway has their bottom line to worry about and if it's driving customers away they have to do what they want to do. Safeway is a grocery store so I'm not exactly sure why you would think they need to be considering the implications for the homeless people as it's not their problem at the end of the day.

Not to mention this specific Safeway has the highest amount of theft in all of Canada (Western Canada maybe?) according to the Manager.

[rohara66]

Just got back from a week long trip to NYC…. Every ledge there is covered in metal spikes (literally) to keep people from loitering. Some of the people crying in this thread would lose their minds in other cities haha.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Something tells me you don't visit this Safeway 3 times a week like some of us do.

Sorry that you’re bothered by the less fortunate. Life must be very hard for you.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

I don't see how bolting on some obviously repurposed parking lot bumpers onto the concrete ledges are going to stop people from panhadling. It just makes it hard to sleep on top of them but you can still hang out or sit on the benches.

Exactly. Does Safeway really think that the only thing keeping pandhandlers in the area was that they had a nice ledge to sit on? Or that panhandlers object to sitting on the ground? All this does is make the whole area uglier.

Originally Posted by I-Hate-Hulse

Why not just remove the planters? Spend a bit of money to do this properly instead of this ghetto hack?

Yeah, or just actually pay a couple of security guards to escort people off of the premises. It's private property, you're allowed to kick people out if you think they're a net negative for your business.

Of course, then they'll just go around the corner by the bus stop, which is public property.

Honestly it wouldn't even matter if they just turned that whole area into more parking. As long as there's significant foot traffic (and there is, it's kensington), there will be people trying to get money from that foot traffic. Not really anything to be done about it.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Sorry that you’re bothered by the less fortunate. Life must be very hard for you.

That's a bold assumption of you that its the less fortunate that are the only ones loitering there.

In fact the homeless in the area mostly loiter on the south side of the parking lot around a bench and keep to themselves mostly. These measures are not targeted at them IMO.

Its the teenagers and other people that hang out in front of the store that cause the issues.

In fact this summer alone I have seen 2 bikes get stolen, someone attempt to steal a dog that was left out front, multiple fights with police responding, People yelling at shoppers coming out with their groceries etc etc..

And again these are likely an attempt to cut down on the HUGE amount of theft that goes on at the store.

[nik-]

The thing to me is the complaint about public spaces. There's a beautiful park a block north. Half a block south there's a public sitting space with business that border it which actually make sense with a public seating area.

More public spaces are great, but that is a pretty awful public space as a result of being sandwiched against an intersection and the tenant that it's in front of. It's an in and out business, unlike the one down the block.

It just never made sense to me why anyone would sit out there, except for the solicitors.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

I do visit multiple times a week and have never had any issues. What am I doing wrong?

I bike there and lock up at the crappy racks right by these planters, I walk there and pass by everybody, and sometimes I even drive.

Honestly, you're blessed with a sunny disposition and a propensity for looking on the bright side. Not all of us are wired that way. If you can put on a smile and click your heels while you skip around crackheads, that sounds like an awesome way to be. For everybody else, these people can be a downer, they can be intimidating, and they can just kind of gross you out. Scoot them away to hang out under a bridge or something.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Sliver

For everybody else, these people can be a downer, they can be intimidating, and they can just kind of gross you out. Scoot them away to hang out under a bridge or something.

Hahahaha, if this had been posted by anyone else I would assume it was satirical. Good lord.

Go nuts, Pepsifree, here's the guy you were looking for.

[CaptainCrunch]

The complaints are about loitering sure, but also agressive panhandling and in store theft.

Its admirable to jump to the conclusion that "You people are just bothered by the less fortunate". But being aggressively approached for money and handouts on your way into a grocery store, and that store reporting a lot of thefts makes this about more then just being bothered by the homeless.

If customers don't like Safeway's approach they absolutely have a right to either take their business elsewhere or talk to management, but management's concern is about reacting to customer feedback and looking at ways to improve the customers shopping experience and reducing thefts. This is certainly the least nasty way of doing it. The only real other method is upping lot security and throwing loiterers and panhandlers off of their property or involving the police.

[nik-]

I just pray the day never comes where I have to urgently make the choice to use the bathroom in that Safeway or #### my pants in public.

I don't know what I'd choose.

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Honestly, you're blessed with a sunny disposition and a propensity for looking on the bright side. Not all of us are wired that way. If you can put on a smile and click your heels while you skip around crackheads, that sounds like an awesome way to be.

Good thing we're raising our kids the same way.

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by nik-

I just pray the day never comes where I have to urgently make the choice to use the bathroom in that Safeway or #### my pants in public.

I don't know what I'd choose.

I've been in there when the younger one had no choice. I've also been to India.

It was fine.

[nik-]

I've used it in the past, but that was probably like 8 years ago.

Who knows how it's ... evolved?