Actor Formerly Known as Ellen Page, Now Elliot Page

[GirlySports]

Look, nobody's perfect and more and more in this world we are expecting perfection. Be it racism, sexism, any type of ism. We all will slip up and we all will apologize, just don't shame us. I support all these movements and want people to be happy. Just don't shame me when I'm on your side and just made a mistake, I will no longer be on your side.

[GGG]

How do you refer to his previous work? Is Elliot Page was in Juno and he was Oscar nominated for Best Actress the correct way to talk about the past?

[Minnie]

Originally Posted by CMPunk

I would imagine so as he now identifies as a trans male, so he would no longer be homosexual since he prefers females.

No, he/they identify as non-binary. Pronouns don't equal gender. If someone uses a gendered pronoun, it doesn't mean they are that gender, it's just the pronoun they're comfortable with. They haven't said anything about their sexuality, so that isn't part of the equation right now. I'm still learning all of this, have had great conversation with my daughter about this, this past week. She's taught me a lot about this conversation.

Also, because I'm still learning and learned this a while ago, the proper use is transgender, not transgendered. The use of the word transgendered has been somewhat weaponized by individuals who hate transgender people.

[Minnie]

Originally Posted by GGG

How do you refer to his previous work? Is Elliot Page was in Juno and he was Oscar nominated for Best Actress the correct way to talk about the past?

You refer to it as the award it was. It's not transphobic or dead naming. That was how/who they identified as at the time of that movie and award. Frankly, it should just be best actor, period. Why the awards are gendered is kind of odd. They're all actors, regardless of gender.

Intent matters. If your intent is to be malicious, then it's transphobic & misgendering. If it's simply a referral to their past works, as explained above, it's fine.

To better understand, I've been chatting about this with my daughter & she has shown me a couple of discussion amongst non-binary folx. Look at their conversations, and use that as your jumping off point.

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Look, nobody's perfect and more and more in this world we are expecting perfection. Be it racism, sexism, any type of ism. We all will slip up and we all will apologize, just don't shame us. I support all these movements and want people to be happy. Just don't shame me when I'm on your side and just made a mistake, I will no longer be on your side.

The problem with that mentality is that the people shaming you and the people needing your support may not be the same people. If you decide "oh, some random person 'shamed' me for this innocent mistake I made about referring to a trans person, so now I'm going to be anti-trans-people," then you were never really a supporter of that side to begin with. We can all just do our best to support those that need our support, and forget about 'sides'.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Does this mean we have to remove the credits in previous movies?

They have in the Matrix movies, on streaming services, the updated Wachowski's name in a few of them where you see the details of actors / directors / etc.

This would be harder to do on my VHS of The Matrix, but if they asked, I would send it in.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Barnet Flame

Well Nickleback’s was.

Nah, Satan is well known to have the best music

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Minnie

Why the awards are gendered is kind of odd. They're all actors, regardless of gender.

You ain't getting a three hour show out of one award.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

You ain't getting a three hour show out of one award.

Yeah, I was going to say this too.

It means they get to hand out more awards. They love their awards ceremonies where wealthy famous people get to pat each other on the backs for a job well done.

[Wormius]

Aren’t many Grammy awards non-gendered? Seems like this isn’t an insurmountable problem for the acting community to solve.

[Flabbibulin]

Nm

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Aren’t many Grammy awards non-gendered? Seems like this isn’t an insurmountable problem for the acting community to solve.

They could simply create separate awards for comedy and drama and have the same number
Best Actor: Drama
Best Actor: Comedy
Supporting Actor: Drama
Supporting Actor: Comedy

And so on.

[Snuffleupagus]

I still see Elloit as a cute little talented gal from Halifax, he see's it different I guess

[Cole436]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Look, nobody's perfect and more and more in this world we are expecting perfection. Be it racism, sexism, any type of ism. We all will slip up and we all will apologize, just don't shame us. I support all these movements and want people to be happy. Just don't shame me when I'm on your side and just made a mistake, I will no longer be on your side.

So somehow you made human rights about you?

[ResAlien]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Look, nobody's perfect and more and more in this world we are expecting perfection. Be it racism, sexism, any type of ism. We all will slip up and we all will apologize, just don't shame us. I support all these movements and want people to be happy. Just don't shame me when I'm on your side and just made a mistake, I will no longer be on your side.

If a little shame is all it takes to make you go from supporting human rights to being against them then you were a bad person in the first place.

[PepsiFree]

Couple thoughts when reading this thread:

- "They/them" has been used as a singular for hundreds of years. People are saying it's typically plural, but I don't think people realise how often they use it for ungendered/gender unknown people. "The customer wanted a discount, so I gave it to them" or "Someone wrote an article about bananas, they gave some pretty good reasons why bananas are actually terrible." It's only awkward because you "know" the gender of the person. Elliot has also said he/him is fine along with they/them, so in this specific case, it should cause no trouble for plural purists. But typically, we use they/them for both singular and plural all the time.

- People worry too much about the "intolerant left" or whatever. Really, how often do you encounter someone who is not remotely understanding and will scream at you for using the deadname of someone who is a stranger to you both. You're honestly concerned that in your day to day life, someone will do anything beyond say "Actually, it's Elliot now" if you call him Ellen Page? I doubt it. I run in wildly progressive queer circles, and even then there's a pretty good understand and a pretty good ability to quickly tell the difference between a mistake/ignorance and something malicious (the "malicious" tell is usually what is said around the deadnaming, not deadnaming itself).

- And maybe most importantly: if being shamed by some random person is enough to make you "not on my side" then you were never on my side to begin with. I'm anti-racist, but if I slip up and say something insensitive or ignorant and someone goes off on me, I'm not suddenly turning around and thinking "alright, guess I'm racist now." Grow up, that's silly. Nobody believes that. Nobody is perfect, this is true, but if you're asking for forgiveness for slip ups and mistakes and not to be shamed, it seems reasonable for you to forgive the same of others, and not just abandon them completely on first criticism.

[CroFlames]

My question is how to refer to past credits or achievements?

For example, do we say Ellen Page played Treena in Trailer Park Boys way back when, or do we say Elliot Page when generally discussing TPB?

Also do all talented Canadian people come from the Halifax region of Canada?

[ResAlien]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

My question is how to refer to past credits or achievements?

For example, do we say Ellen Page played Treena in Trailer Park Boys way back when, or do we say Elliot Page when generally discussing TPB?

Also do all talented Canadian people come from the Halifax region of Canada?

You say Elliott in all instances. Easy peasy.

[Locke]

Hm. I wonder why he decided to stick with the 'E?'

Ellen to Elliot?

You could literally pick any name you want. Its interesting.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Locke

Hm. I wonder why he decided to stick with the 'E?'

Ellen to Elliot?

You could literally pick any name you want. Its interesting.

Comfort, familiarity, something that feels right.

Some people tend to pick something close to their given name because they are still attached to it and simply want something similar but less masculine/feminine.

Can't say for sure, but their nickname could be something like "Ell" among friends, which they like, and which would still apply to Elliot just the same.

From what I've heard, it's a lot different than naming kids or something like that. You're picking a name for yourself, so it can be really difficult. It's not so much "I like this name" as "do I feel this name fits me."