Pentagon releases UFO videos

[photon]

Rules for Time Travelers by someone who understands Einstein
https://www.discovermagazine.com/the...time-travelers

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Maybe I missed something on the works of Einstein but where did he ever suggest it's possible for a living being to survive traveling at the speed of light in order to time travel? all he said was it's theoretically possible if one could travel faster than light but he didn't mention how or how to survive it.

He also didn't say there was any restraints on living being traveling at the speed of light. I mean, you do realize that astronauts on the international space station are travelling at 17,500 mph (mach 23), a speed on earth that would "rip them apart". How is it possible that these people survive the incredible force this speed creates?

Think hard on this.

Here's another mind bender for you. How is it possible that humans traveled to the bottom of the Mariana's trench (36,200 below the surface) where pressures reach a staggering 16,000 psi? Why didn't these men drown? Why were they not crushed under the immense weight of the sea water? Certainly this is a science fiction that only Jules Verne could have imagined. How was this possible???

What's the connection here?

With much arrogance you apparently think I'm a pea brain so please explain to me what can travel at or even near the speed of light that contains mass?

It has been explained. Multiple times. I can't help your inability to open your mind to stuff you don't understand or care to understand. I really can't. You view our understanding of the universe as absolute and concrete. I don't. Much of what we think we know is fallible and unproven. We make new discoveries every day that add support to theories and disprove others. That is science in action.

Here's a good starting place to explore these concepts.

https://ocw.mit.edu/high-school/phys...quest_lec5.pdf

https://pages.uoregon.edu/imamura/FP...-1/week-1.html
https://pages.uoregon.edu/imamura/FP...-2/week-2.html
https://pages.uoregon.edu/imamura/FP...-3/week-3.html
https://pages.uoregon.edu/imamura/FP...-4/week-4.html
https://pages.uoregon.edu/imamura/FP...-5/week-5.html
https://pages.uoregon.edu/imamura/FP...-6/week-6.html
https://pages.uoregon.edu/imamura/FP...-7/week-7.html
https://pages.uoregon.edu/imamura/FP...-8/week-8.html

Wormholes,folding space..etc is science fiction until proven

Sure. And just like gravimetric waves were pure science fiction... until they were detected in 2016, 111 years after being proposed Poincare, and 100 years after being predicted by Einstein, thanks to that pointy headed theory of general relativity. Yeah, they were "science fiction" simply because we did not YET have the understanding or technology to detect those gravimetric waves. It didn't mean they didn't exist, it only meant we did not have the understanding or had developed the technology to detect them.

Our understanding of the universe is in its infancy. Believing that we know everything about our universe is what is arrogant. Speaking with such certainty that we know what is out there, or how everything in our universe works, that is the height of arrogance. It's especially comical when people (not you specifically) start tossing around flawed tools like the Drake equation as a means of supporting their claims, when that equation relies on a number of unprovable variables - based on our current understanding of the universe and technology. We don't know what we don't know. We don't know what happens where something goes through a black hole, because we've never observed it. We don't know whether wormholes are unstable, stable, or exist at all, because we have never observed one. What we do know is the science for them to exist, exists. Beyond that, we are just guessing. So to suggest that we can unequivocally dismiss the ability to do something or survive something seems arrogant. Especially when we continue to develop technologies to protect our very fragile bodies from the destructive forces around us. And that is just what we have done in the past 100 years. Give it another 100 years... if our species lasts that long.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by GGG

The simplest way to state it is that general relativity does not prohibit geometries of space time that permit time travel.

This nuance is very important. Not being prohibited by General Relativity is not the same as being practically possible.

I agree with others that we really know very little. The more we learn, the more questions come up and the more we become aware of how incomplete our knowledge is.

I look at gravity as an example. Gravity has been known to be a scientific fact for centuries, but the more we have learned about it, the more complex the theory has become and we realize now that something which at one time seemed relatively simple, is in fact very complicated and not 100% understood. General Relativity is not complete. It's reliable and when tested, shows little to no deviation from Einstein's predictions and calculations, but there are still other things going on.

[Ozy_Flame]

If you're into the topic of ufology, one of the main voices in the disclosure movement is former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Intelligence Chris Mellon.

He recently penned a very detailed write-up and scathing analysis of why the US Air Force is lacking in reporting around the UAP topic and resisting civilian oversight on the issue. You may note that there is a large difference between the way the USAF and the US Navy approach this issue (with many recently released videos or unidentified cases being from Navy archives).

Why is the Air Force AWOL on the UAP Issue?

Last June, the Director of National Intelligence (DNI) released a public report entitled Preliminary Assessment: Unidentified Aerial Phenomena. The report confirmed that vehicles of unknown origin and capability are operating on a recurring basis, with seeming impunity, in restricted U.S. military airspace. It also appears that in some cases these vehicles are maneuvering in ways that surpass not only U.S. aerospace capabilities but our understanding of physics. As U.S. Senator Martin Heinrich, a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee said, “I don’t know what it is, but any time you have legitimate pilots describing something that doesn’t seem to conform to the laws of physics that govern aviation and is in U.S. airspace, I think it’s something we need to get to the bottom of.”

The DNI’s report cited 144 incidents since 2004 in which the U.S. military detected these enigmatic aircraft. Although OSD and DNI public affairs refuse to clarify, it is my understanding that the U.S. Air Force contributed very few, if any, of the 144 reports. If one or two USAF UAP reports did slip through, they are at best the exception that proves the rule. Otherwise it was virtually all US Navy reporting. Notably, in 80 Cases multiple sensor systems simultaneously corroborated the presence of the UAP.

How is this possible in light of the USAF’s global responsibility for aerospace defense and its massive air and space surveillance capabilities? Are we to believe that the USAF did not detect any Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon (UAP) from 2004 until 2021? This lapse in USAF reporting raises doubts about the credibility of the Air Force on the UAP issue and its responsiveness to civilian oversight.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Something else to add to the discussion, the idea of faster than light travel got a bit of a boost last year when Alcubierre's theoretical warp drive became a real possibility with the accidental discovery of a warp bubble by scientists working on an unrelated DARPA project.

For those who don't know, it was theorized back in the 90's that warp drive was indeed a possibility, bending space for and aft of a vehicle and allowing for faster than light travel. The Alcubierre warp drive engine relied on exotic elements to generate the immense power required to create the gravity well to bend space. The requirement of exotic elements was what brought much derision to the theory and not thought to be possible. Alcubierre's theory also played within the boundaries of General Relativity, which made it that much more interesting.

Fast forward to August of last year, when a DARPA researcher accidentally created a warp bubble while researching Casimir cavities. This was all done at a nano scale, but was exactly as Alcubierre had proposed/theorized almost 30 years ago, except without the need of exotic elements. This may be one of the most exciting developments in history, yet the researchers have back-burnered further research until they complete their study and work on Casimir cavities.

Further proof that we don't know what we don't know, and science fiction isn't always fiction.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Something else to add to the discussion, the idea of faster than light travel got a bit of a boost last year when Alcubierre's theoretical warp drive became a real possibility with the accidental discovery of a warp bubble by scientists working on an unrelated DARPA project.

For those who don't know, it was theorized back in the 90's that warp drive was indeed a possibility, bending space for and aft of a vehicle and allowing for faster than light travel. The Alcubierre warp drive engine relied on exotic elements to generate the immense power required to create the gravity well to bend space. The requirement of exotic elements was what brought much derision to the theory and not thought to be possible. Alcubierre's theory also played within the boundaries of General Relativity, which made it that much more interesting.

Fast forward to August of last year, when a DARPA researcher accidentally created a warp bubble while researching Casimir cavities. This was all done at a nano scale, but was exactly as Alcubierre had proposed/theorized almost 30 years ago, except without the need of exotic elements. This may be one of the most exciting developments in history, yet the researchers have back-burnered further research until they complete their study and work on Casimir cavities.

Further proof that we don't know what we don't know, and science fiction isn't always fiction.

Seems like just another dream

[Lanny_McDonald]

It's like you don't even read the stuff presented or are incapable of understanding the information contained. Your big "counter argument" is to present a piece of literature written before the observance/discovery of the warp bubble, and the confirmation of Alcubierre's theoretical underpinnings. This discovery also confirmed the existence of the mysterious negative energy and eliminated the belief that exotic elements were required. This discovery made Frank's article age about as well as his Blockbuster membership card.

[karl262]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Seems like just another dream

We should probably close down the patent office. Everything has been invented by now.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Something else to add to the discussion, the idea of faster than light travel got a bit of a boost last year when Alcubierre's theoretical warp drive became a real possibility with the accidental discovery of a warp bubble by scientists working on an unrelated DARPA project.

For those who don't know, it was theorized back in the 90's that warp drive was indeed a possibility, bending space for and aft of a vehicle and allowing for faster than light travel. The Alcubierre warp drive engine relied on exotic elements to generate the immense power required to create the gravity well to bend space. The requirement of exotic elements was what brought much derision to the theory and not thought to be possible. Alcubierre's theory also played within the boundaries of General Relativity, which made it that much more interesting.

Fast forward to August of last year, when a DARPA researcher accidentally created a warp bubble while researching Casimir cavities. This was all done at a nano scale, but was exactly as Alcubierre had proposed/theorized almost 30 years ago, except without the need of exotic elements. This may be one of the most exciting developments in history, yet the researchers have back-burnered further research until they complete their study and work on Casimir cavities.

Further proof that we don't know what we don't know, and science fiction isn't always fiction.

I came across the warp bubble thing a little while ago on Youtube. It was on a channel that tends to talk more about unexplained stuff, so I didn't think to read up on it more. Sounds pretty intriguing and worth looking into.

If my understanding is correct, it gets past one of the bigger issue of FTL travel, and that being anything large flying through space at that speed would likely get shredded by small particles.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

If my understanding is correct, it gets past one of the bigger issue of FTL travel, and that being anything large flying through space at that speed would likely get shredded by small particles.

We already see that happens when approaching the speed of light at the event horizon of a black hole, full stars and likely rocky planets torn apart down to molecule size never to be seen again except for when these black holes "burp" out the super hot gas and protons from a just-swallowed star.

To think matter especially living matter can survive the speed of light is pure science fiction.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

If my understanding is correct, it gets past one of the bigger issue of FTL travel, and that being anything large flying through space at that speed would likely get shredded by small particles.

Yes, that is correct. The gravimetric wave/bubble that is created protects anything within it, which would include the vehicle creating the bubble, and inhabitants of the vehicle itself. It is also theorized that anything approaching the speed of light would have a similar field around it repulsing small particles, but this is again theoretical and we are only starting to see research able to answer these problems.

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

We already see that happens when approaching the speed of light at the event horizon of a black hole, full stars and likely rocky planets torn apart down to molecule size never to be seen again except for when these black holes "burp" out the super hot gas and protons from a just-swallowed star.

Oh, we've seen this have we? News flash. Everything you just wrote is pure speculation and theory, and... mostly science fictions. We have NOT seen any of this. We have no idea what happens with black holes. The first image of a black hole was captured in 2019 and that only captured the silhouette of the black hole. Nothing more. We are still working on theory and computer models to envision black holes. We have some really good science behind what we think happens with black holes, but we have really good science behind other things, like gravimetric waves, warp bubbles, and possible FTL travel. We are now just getting to the point where we can begin to prove or disprove some of this really good science, because that's how science works.

To think matter especially living matter can survive the speed of light is pure science fiction.

No it isn't. Again, general relativity explains it is possible.

[ripTDR]

GR doesn't explain it's possible, It theorizes it. It's easy to throw stuff around and speculate and make the math work but practically speaking on a macro scale nothing of mass can achieve the velocity to go faster than light. All these theories need some sort of "exotic" energy to make things work.



The energy of Suns in localized space is going to create massive gravitational fields that need to be shaped by this exotic energy and sorry to say, that might be possible in solving GR equations, it just isn't possible in practice

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Oh, we've seen this have we? News flash. Everything you just wrote is pure speculation and theory, and... mostly science fictions. We have NOT seen any of this. We have no idea what happens with black holes. The first image of a black hole was captured in 2019 and that only captured the silhouette of the black hole. Nothing more. We are still working on theory and computer models to envision black holes. We have some really good science behind what we think happens with black holes, but we have really good science behind other things, like gravimetric waves, warp bubbles, and possible FTL travel. We are now just getting to the point where we can begin to prove or disprove some of this really good science, because that's how science works.



No it isn't. Again, general relativity explains it is possible.

Well aren't you special, who to believe, you or Nasa ?

And another one https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard...ive-black-hole

And again, general relativity doesn't explain matter traveling FTL

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by ripTDR

GR doesn't explain it's possible, It theorizes it. It's easy to throw stuff around and speculate and make the math work but practically speaking on a macro scale nothing of mass can achieve the velocity to go faster than light. All these theories need some sort of "exotic" energy to make things work.

From the article, which you obviously did not read.

"That solution was lauded for its elegant mathematics, yet simultaneously derided for its use of theoretical materials and massive amounts of energy that appeared virtually impossible to engineer in any practical way.

Over a decade later, this theory underwent a major shift, when Dr. White, a then NASA-employed warp drive specialist and the founder of the highly respected Eagleworks laboratory, reworked Alcubierre’s original metric and put it into canonical form. This change in design dramatically reduced the exotic materials and energy requirements of the original concept."

"Since then, The Debrief has covered a number of physicists and engineers taking their own stabs at designing a viable warp drive, including an entire group of international researchers working on a warp drive that requires no exotic matter. However, like Alcubierre and White before them, the warp concepts of these would-be visionaries all still remain theoretical in nature.

Now, it appears the situation has changed."

White observed the warp bubble while working on the Casimir cavities using NO exotic elements. That's right, no exotic materials were used in the Casimir cavity experiment where the warp bubble was produced. They didn't go looking for this outcome, but found it anyways. Kind of like Fleming discovering penicillin in a contaminated Petri dish he was about to throw out.

The energy of Suns in localized space is going to create massive gravitational fields that need to be shaped by this exotic energy and sorry to say, that might be possible in solving GR equations, it just isn't possible in practice

Yet, it happened and was substantiated through peer review. Wow, it's like sometimes we think we understand things, then we don't. That's called science. It is funny, but we've heard the whole "possible in practice" think throughout the history of science. Splitting the atom was theorized to be possible, it just wasn't possible in practice. Yet we learned how to split the atom, control the chain reaction, and have harnessed that incredible power in practice.

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Well aren't you special, who to believe, you or Nasa ?

And another one https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard...ive-black-hole

From your own article.

"NASA's Hubble Space Telescope hasn't photographed the phantom jet but has helped find circumstantial evidence that it is still pushing feebly into a huge hydrogen cloud and then splattering, like the narrow stream from a hose aimed into a pile of sand."

"Wagner and Cecil next ran supercomputer models of jet outflows in a simulated Milky Way disk, which reproduced the observations."

Exactly as I said. We have not seen this, this is all conjecture and only evident in computer simulation. We do not yet have the technology to see this phenomena in action. We very likely will some day, but we aren't there yet and have to rely on modeling to "see" these things.

It's almost like they stopped teaching reading comprehension after 1970.

And again, general relativity doesn't explain matter traveling FTL

It also doesn't say matter can't travel at such speeds, or exceed that speed limit. It describes a limit through the constant but no prohibition relating to mass or matter, making it possible. Don't conflate the chemical concept of mass definition, pertaining to density of atoms, as they are different beasts. The math behind the theory actually suggests that closer you get to the speed of light the less mass you have - mass being the resistance to acceleration caused by gravity - and the faster you go the closer to a singularity where mass becomes zero. Mass doesn't cease to exist, the influence of gravity just becomes zero. In the equation the faster you go the less influence gravity has. Consider it like the concept of escape velocity. Once you have achieved that velocity (constant) nothing affects your mass. And that is without creating fields of supermassive gravity as a means to bend space time, or using negative energy densities to warp space.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by ripTDR

GR doesn't explain it's possible, It theorizes it. It's easy to throw stuff around and speculate and make the math work but practically speaking on a macro scale nothing of mass can achieve the velocity to go faster than light. All these theories need some sort of "exotic" energy to make things work.



The energy of Suns in localized space is going to create massive gravitational fields that need to be shaped by this exotic energy and sorry to say, that might be possible in solving GR equations, it just isn't possible in practice

So what is your position?

FTL travel is not practicaly possible?

That would be an absurd position.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Exactly as I said. We have not seen this, this is all conjecture and only evident in computer simulation. We do not yet have the technology to see this phenomena in action. We very likely will some day, but we aren't there yet and have to rely on modeling to "see" these things.

It's almost like they stopped teaching reading comprehension after 1970.

Did you read the first article or just conveniently leave it out?

"Using data from several telescopes including NASA's Chandra X-ray Observatory, astronomers have caught a supermassive black hole snacking on gas and then "burping" — not once but twice, as described in our latest press release.

This graphic shows the galaxy, called SDSS J1354+1327 (J1354 for short) in a composite image with data from Chandra (purple), and the Hubble Space Telescope (HST; red, green and blue). The inset box contains a close-up view of the central region around J1354's supermassive black hole. A companion galaxy to J1354 is shown to the north. Researchers also used data from the W.M. Keck Observatory atop Mauna Kea, Hawaii and the Apache Point Observatory (APO) in New Mexico for this finding.

Chandra detected a bright, point-like source of X-ray emission from J1354, a telltale sign of the presence of a supermassive black hole millions or billions of times more massive than our sun. The X-rays are produced by gas heated to millions of degrees by the enormous gravitational and magnetic forces near the black hole. Some of this gas will fall into the black hole, while a portion will be expelled in a powerful outflow of high-energy particles.

By comparing images from Chandra and HST, the team determined that the black hole is located in the center of the galaxy, the expected location for such an object. The X-ray data also provide evidence that the supermassive black hole is embedded in a heavy veil of dust and gas.

The two-course meal for the black hole comes from a companion galaxy that collided with J1354 in the past. This collision produced a stream of stars and gas that links J1354 and the other galaxy. The separate outbursts from the black hole are caused by different clumps from this stream being consumed by the supermassive black hole. The researchers determined these two "burps" happened about 100,000 years apart."
Spoilers for size

Spoiler!

Image of black hole

Spoiler!

The stunning new image shows the shadow of the supermassive black hole in the center of Messier 87

Spoiler!

[ripTDR]

Originally Posted by GGG

So what is your position?

FTL travel is not practicaly possible?

That would be an absurd position.

Yes I believe FTL travel is not possible for anything that has mass warp bubble or not


May I ask why it is an absurd position?

[CaptainCrunch]

Late to this conversation, but even with new physics and mathematical models. the concept of faster then light warp travel where you shrink distances in front of your ship and elongate it or normalize it behind your ship have a requirement for negative mass or a ring of negative energy density around your vehicle to bend space time? And negative mass has never been observed.


Maybe this might explain it better then I can.


https://earthsky.org/space/warp-driv...-space-travel/

Alcubierre’s warp drive would work by creating a bubble of flat spacetime around the spaceship and curving spacetime around that bubble to reduce distances. The warp drive would require either negative mass – a theorized type of matter – or a ring of negative energy density to work. Physicists have never observed negative mass, so that leaves negative energy as the only option.
To create negative energy, a warp drive would use a huge amount of mass to create an imbalance between particles and antiparticles. For example, if an electron and an antielectron appear near the warp drive, one of the particles would get trapped by the mass and this results in an imbalance. This imbalance results in negative energy density. Alcubierre’s warp drive would use this negative energy to create the spacetime bubble.
But for a warp drive to generate enough negative energy, you would need a lot of matter. Alcubierre estimated that a warp drive with a 100-meter bubble would require the mass of the entire visible universe.
In 1999, physicist Chris Van Den Broeck showed that expanding the volume inside the bubble but keeping the surface area constant would reduce the energy requirements significantly, to just about the mass of the sun. A significant improvement, but still far beyond all practical possibilities.

Two recent papers – one by Alexey Bobrick and Gianni Martire and another by Erik Lentz – provide solutions that seem to bring warp drives closer to reality.
Bobrick and Martire realized that by modifying spacetime within the bubble in a certain way, they could remove the need to use negative energy. This solution, though, does not produce a warp drive that can go faster than light.
Independently, Lentz also proposed a solution that does not require negative energy. He used a different geometric approach to solve the equations of General Relativity, and by doing so, he found that a warp drive wouldn’t need to use negative energy. Lentz’s solution would allow the bubble to travel faster than the speed of light.
It is essential to point out that these exciting developments are mathematical models. As a physicist, I won’t fully trust models until we have experimental proof. Yet, the science of warp drives is coming into view. As a science fiction fan, I welcome all this innovative thinking. In the words of Captain Picard:

Its funny when we talk about breakthroughs. Some one mentioned extreme depth exploration, but that was more a question of engineering and materials then defying the laws of physics or nature that were in place.


For example you look at the Atomic Bomb, Science Fiction writers were talking about harnnessing the atom and creating atomic weapons far before the Manhatten project. The laws of physics always supported it. However what changed was on the outside of that.


The ability to manufacture the materials for the explosive core of an atomic bomb made it possible more then changing the rules of theoretical physics. But the first Atomic Bombs were unweildly bruteforce inefficient designs that were built on with material refinements and computer technology. Then we got the leap forward.


Getting man to the bottom of the ocean was always in theory possible. But materials and manufacturing advances made it possible.


I'm not saying FTL travel isn't possible. But we're so far away from it mainly and probably more then anything else because of the energy budget that it would require. In Star Trek they talk about matter and antimatter creating the required power to create a warp bubble, but honestly that wouldn't even come close to creating the energy required.



You, me, our kids, our kids kids and probably a 1000 or more generations is going to pass until we pobably see warp travel.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Late to this conversation, but even with new physics and mathematical models. the concept of faster then light warp travel where you shrink distances in front of your ship and elongate it or normalize it behind your ship have a requirement for negative mass or a ring of negative energy density around your vehicle to bend space time? And negative mass has never been observed.


Maybe this might explain it better then I can.


https://earthsky.org/space/warp-driv...-space-travel/








Its funny when we talk about breakthroughs. Some one mentioned extreme depth exploration, but that was more a question of engineering and materials then defying the laws of physics or nature that were in place.


For example you look at the Atomic Bomb, Science Fiction writers were talking about harnnessing the atom and creating atomic weapons far before the Manhatten project. The laws of physics always supported it. However what changed was on the outside of that.


The ability to manufacture the materials for the explosive core of an atomic bomb made it possible more then changing the rules of theoretical physics. But the first Atomic Bombs were unweildly bruteforce inefficient designs that were built on with material refinements and computer technology. Then we got the leap forward.


Getting man to the bottom of the ocean was always in theory possible. But materials and manufacturing advances made it possible.


I'm not saying FTL travel isn't possible. But we're so far away from it mainly and probably more then anything else because of the energy budget that it would require. In Star Trek they talk about matter and antimatter creating the required power to create a warp bubble, but honestly that wouldn't even come close to creating the energy required.



You, me, our kids, our kids kids and probably a 1000 or more generations is going to pass until we pobably see warp travel.

I'm going to say never, humans will likely go extinct long before they figure that out, if somehow we did last long enough then it's likely they also figured out time travel but yet we haven't seen any.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by ripTDR

Yes I believe FTL travel is not possible for anything that has mass warp bubble or not


May I ask why it is an absurd position?

Because theories and mathematics allow for geometries of the universe that can create FTL travel with energy requirements less massive than the universe.

So the theory that creates the light speed limit is the smae theory that allows it to be broken. That we don’t have the tech to prove the theory yet is no basis to dismiss it.

There is nothing out there right now to suggest it can’t be done to base your position on.