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Old 02-04-2021, 03:12 PM   #6681
Lanny_McDonald
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Originally Posted by genetic_phreek View Post
Would this trade make sense?

Bennett to FLA
Tippett to CGY

Tippett is a RHS RW. On the taxi squad.
Not for Florida. That would be awesome for us though.
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Old 02-04-2021, 03:12 PM   #6682
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Yes. Exactly. And this makes my point for me: the "chemistry" argument fails because in all of these instances it was something that occurred right away. Bennett has had time and opportunity playing with top-line players, and has never looked great, to my eye. Counter to your earlier points, he is not nearly the equivalent to a player like Monahan who was instantly dominant with Gaudreau, and who was badly missed by Gaudreau when he was injured.


I'm the one framing this poorly? Unbelievable. I think you are getting frustrated by your own feeble attempts to move the goal posts in this argument.


And you are ignoring the point that I was making with the Gaudreau piece; a point that I have already repeated, and will do so one more time: GAUDREAU HAS STRUGGLED WITHOUT MONAHAN. This has nothing to do with my malleability. It has to do with data and evidence. If you had any to bolster your ideas about Sam Bennett and Sean Monahan I would happily deal with it. But so far, there has been nothing but platitudes about "intangibles" and "chemistry."
I did share evidence eventually. Yet, I will admit most of my assessment is from the eye test. I have also tried to respond to your points and the others that I have amassed from my comments.

Let’s see then how many games they have been apart! Is that enough to say it’s comparable towards suggestion you make? I don’t think so. But I see the point you’re trying to make and I don’t agree with it.

Your emboldened all caps sentence doesn’t give this point your arguing for any more merit by screaming. Really the sample size isn’t there enough to say that Johnny struggles without monny. It’s a few games. I can dig it up when I get to a desktop. Yet, Even with their alleged chemistry Jonny and monny are with their deserved warts. To argue Johnny struggles without monny is a problematic notion. I believe they are too I intrinsic to each other to suggest personally but I think Johnny does better without monny than monny does without Johnny. And there is no way to get an adequate sample without cherry picking. Johnny was apart of the American team lumping squad and played well though.

I like Sam Bennet. I’m a team player and I respect those who go above and beyond for a squad. Sam does this. He may not be the most statistically valuable guy but I think he’s been developed incorrectly. Yet what does my opinion matter? A hill of beans.

I want to like Monahan. He’s a high character kid. He’s been a good soldier. He’s been a productive draft pick. I just struggle to see him as this complete player. Neither is Sam. I see that.

Platitudes aside. I agree with the point VilleN made earlier in this little episode: “when a third line player is the best player on your team you have bigger problems. “. That fits with I think the angst that’s emerged here but I am pretty remorseful for my ostensible representation of self. I didn’t really come to the thread with a well rehearsed and planned attempt. I came in with a hot take and have been reeling ever since. I’m not trying to be a jerk. It’s just that the figh comment was silly and I tried to be silly in return. It didn’t translate and I look agro. I’m not I’m pretty relaxed.

I just wanted to stand up for a guy that did a lot of dirty work for my favourite team.

I think I’d like to hear why the stats I have referenced are being construed the way they are in more articulation though please.
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Old 02-04-2021, 03:14 PM   #6683
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Edit: you are right, uncalled for.
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It's the Law of E=NG. If there was an Edmonton on Mars, it would stink like Uranus.

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Old 02-04-2021, 03:16 PM   #6684
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Let's insult others for contributing to the forum! Especially for their time use when I have 3000 posts on the forum!
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Old 02-04-2021, 03:19 PM   #6685
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Let's insult others for contributing to the forum! Especially for their time use when I have 3000 posts on the forum!
Edit: back to work for me!
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Old 02-04-2021, 03:28 PM   #6686
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Originally Posted by genetic_phreek View Post
Would this trade make sense?

Bennett to FLA
Tippett to CGY

Tippett is a RHS RW. On the taxi squad.
This is why this is a good trade for Calgary : Tippett is a heart and soul player. Not a tough guy, but doesn't shy away either and is shoot first. Natural right wing.

This is why this is a good trade for Florida : After Barkov, their centre depth is Wennberg and then air. They are desperate for a centreman and one that can spark the team in an emotional way.

Bennett 2016 4th overall. Tippett 2017 10th overall.
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Old 02-04-2021, 03:34 PM   #6687
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Bennett + a 1st for Reinhart seems like a great deal for us. I think Buffalo would want more.
It’s funny - a few years ago I figured we could get ROR and Reinhart for Backlund and Bennett. And it made sense at the time.
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Old 02-04-2021, 03:37 PM   #6688
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...I just wanted to stand up for a guy that did a lot of dirty work for my favourite team.
By arguing that he is comparable to the team's top scoring centre? That is a weird way of going about your defense. You should also know that I, too, like Sam Bennett. It is possible to like a player while also being pragmatic about his abilities and prospects.

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I think I’d like to hear why the stats I have referenced are being construed the way they are in more articulation though please.
I have no idea what this sentence means.
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Old 02-04-2021, 03:49 PM   #6689
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By arguing that he is comparable to the team's top scoring centre? That is a weird way of going about your defense. You should also know that I, too, like Sam Bennett. It is possible to like a player while also being pragmatic about his abilities and prospects.


I have no idea what this sentence means.

There were two posters who suggested that shot creation stats I used to compare Monahan and Bennet should be observed to mean something other than what I used them to support.

Also I still think he’s a better option at center than Monahan.

Our top Center to me is problematic. I’d argue backlund is a better overall center man. But as far as just scoring stats it’s hard to defend the argument that Monahan is worse than Bennet. I admit.

Yet My initial point was to the effect that Monahan had been given ample opportunity and wasn’t the level of warrior neeeded to help this team excel. And it was a hot take but I stand by it. I think Bennet could be a better center man if given a chance that Monahan received. I think it’s Bennett’s penchant for iffy calls that really started the momentum towards becoming the mercurial guy we have come to know.

So this team is now stuck in this situation. Geoff ward looks out of his depth and now treliving has to trade Bennet. I like the idea of a reclamation project that fits our needs. Owen tippet would be interesting. What about Jeff carter if la eats some of his salary or is part of a bigger deal? Maybe the best trade to make is the one they didn’t make? Maybe this scratch will light a fire? It’s sad we have to sell low on the highest draft pick we have had.
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Old 02-04-2021, 03:52 PM   #6690
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It’s funny - a few years ago I figured we could get ROR and Reinhart for Backlund and Bennett. And it made sense at the time.
I think there are people on this board who would have shot you for this proposal! If only though, lol. Can you imagine?
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Old 02-04-2021, 04:02 PM   #6691
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People can cherry pick clips, like i can too of good Bennet moments.


I want to see more goals with a defender draped on his back. Goals of him going to the ice to chip a puck past a goalie. Taking a hit to make a play. I'll wait.
Going to the ice (and between the legs): https://youtu.be/umKTfigLdgM

Guys draped on him and taking hits:

https://youtu.be/QQz6ZqvzUCc

Digging pucks and making plays:

https://youtu.be/YzYQOTP8QRs
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Old 02-04-2021, 04:13 PM   #6692
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Going to the ice (and between the legs): https://youtu.be/umKTfigLdgM

Guys draped on him and taking hits:

https://youtu.be/QQz6ZqvzUCc

Digging pucks and making plays:

https://youtu.be/YzYQOTP8QRs
Started watching the second clip. got extremely mad seeing #10 on PP.

Then realized it was 17-18 and breathed a sigh of relief that it was versteeg not Ryan
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Old 02-04-2021, 04:19 PM   #6693
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Started watching the second clip. got extremely mad seeing #10 on PP.

Then realized it was 17-18 and breathed a sigh of relief that it was versteeg not Ryan
Some fans are just irrational. What a thing about which to become enraged.
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Old 02-04-2021, 04:20 PM   #6694
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I'd rather have Ryan on the power play than some of the characters currently on the second unit.
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Old 02-04-2021, 04:23 PM   #6695
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Going to the ice (and between the legs): https://youtu.be/umKTfigLdgM

Guys draped on him and taking hits:

https://youtu.be/QQz6ZqvzUCc

Digging pucks and making plays:

https://youtu.be/YzYQOTP8QRs
Are these suggestions in jest? All it does is confirm my opinion of the guy. He’s good in the power play in overtime and vs inferior competition. He’s also really good at making himself available to shoot and finish. But a lot of those goals are the results of top quality plays made by others. Yet he did finish them.

He didn’t go to the ice on the first one. He went cute it worked and someone bumped him with a light cross check and he spills easy. Typical.

The other one is a 20 minute highlight package of last year. Last year was a rough year for the team. He did explain his desire to be more physical and engaged last year after numerous criticisms about his compete level. That attitude waned as the season went on. it was somewhat there but it wasn’t able to be sustained nor applied vs strong contender like competition.

I would still suggest Benny centering monny and Jonny.
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Old 02-04-2021, 04:25 PM   #6696
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I'd rather have Ryan on the power play than some of the characters currently on the second unit.
Which characters would those be? Lucic I could see but he at least provides net front presence. I would rather have Backlund, Dube, and Mangiapane there than Ryan who has looked horrible offensively this season
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Old 02-04-2021, 04:28 PM   #6697
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I'd take Backlund and Lucic off, put Bennett in front of the net, and add Ryan and Hanifin.
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Old 02-04-2021, 04:34 PM   #6698
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I'd take Backlund and Lucic off, put Bennett in front of the net, and add Ryan and Hanifin.
What have we possibly seen from Ryan that would warrant swapping him for Backlund? You lose on puck possession and zone entry without Backlund.

Only guys I'd have Ryan above on that pp are Simon, Nordstrom, and Lucic.

My god we have a rough bottom 6...
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Old 02-04-2021, 04:34 PM   #6699
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Right shot. Backlund has been worse this year, from my vantage point.
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Old 02-04-2021, 04:38 PM   #6700
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I'd take Backlund and Lucic off, put Bennett in front of the net, and add RyanDube and Hanifin.
FYP

(but otherwise agreed with it)
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