Matthew Tkachuk & Johnny Gaudreau Signing Watch Thread

[2macinnis2]

I’m hoping for a big 8 year deal in the ballpark of 90M for Gaudreau… and it’s the right move. That particular first line needs a player more like Jiri Lehtinen was on the late 90s Stars first line than a Tkachuk. Would Nichuskin or Palat fit the bill at a lower price?

With a Tkachuk trade (assuming for futures), I would expect the big hole left would be line 2C. I think that’s probably the toughest fix in the foreseeable future, and probably would require some luck (Monahan revival, precocious ascension of prospect).

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

If we don’t sign Johnny I’d rather go for Bedard. Won’t happen though.

Even though the chance of getting him is likely in the 1% range?

[Vinny01]

Friedman stated the negotiations for both Johnny and Chucky will begin quickly and the Flames are trying to get both done soon. Would be nice to have them locked up before the draft.

8 years each. We have a team that can win and we have some good talent in the pipeline. Make other moves but the top line are the guys to build around. Lindholm is just as important but luckily signed to a steal deal for 2 more years.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Even though the chance of getting him is likely in the 1% range?

We lose a LARGE chunk of our offense if Johnny isn't signed, so yes I would like to rebuild if we cannot retain Gaudreau.

I think it's either retain both star wingers or lose one to FA and trade the other while his value is insanely high. Could even say the same for Mangiapane if Treliving cannot work out a deal for him.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

We lose a LARGE chunk of our offense if Johnny isn't signed, so yes I would like to rebuild if we cannot retain Gaudreau.

I think it's either retain both star wingers or lose one to FA and trade the other while his value is insanely high. Could even say the same for Mangiapane if Treliving cannot work out a deal for him.

There is a huge difference in meaning between "rebuilding" and "going for Bedard", which implies "tanking".

[Vinny01]

10.5 over 8 for both players equals 12x7 so hopefully that is the highest the cap hits will be. Probably have to make it as player friendly as the CBA allows with bonuses, full NMC, buyout protection where there is minimal cap savings like Lucic’s deal.

Tkachuk will probably really value getting to wear the C. I think that could motivate him to sign. It would be fantastic for the Flames to wrap these deals up before the playoffs are over.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

10.5 over 8 for both players equals 12x7 so hopefully that is the highest the cap hits will be.

It doesn't really equal, as in the latter case you only need to work for 7 years to get the same money.

Although you are correct that total dollars do matter, as the last year (8) is likely to be at lesser dollars.

I'd say a player would expect 8 years at $11M to equal 12x7. That makes year 8 worth about $4M.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

It doesn't really equal, as in the latter case you only need to work for 7 years to get the same money.

Although you are correct that total dollars do matter, as the last year (8) is likely to be at lesser dollars.

I'd say a player would expect 8 years at $11M to equal 12x7. That makes year 8 worth about $4M.

I am referring to total dollars in order for a team to match Calgary’s $84M offer they would have to do it over the lesser term and it costs $1.5M more cap space. I don’t know how many teams would be able to offer either player $12M. I can see the extra year meaning less to Tkachuk because he still has another payday coming but the 8th year plays a big factor in Gaudreau’s deal. I could see Tkachuk signing for 6-8 years if he is serious about wanting to stay long term.

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Yeah, something like that might work too.

Get that legit #1 Dman in his prime locked up with term

Does Ottawa have another potential 1/2 dman? Why would they acquire a top end forward (which they have at least 2 of already, likely 3) and move out from a position all championship teams need?

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by activeStick

Does Ottawa have another potential 1/2 dman? Why would they acquire a top end forward (which they have at least 2 of already, likely 3) and move out from a position all championship teams need?

Jake Sanderson

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I am referring to total dollars in order for a team to match Calgary’s $84M offer they would have to do it over the lesser term and it costs $1.5M more cap space. I don’t know how many teams would be able to offer either player $12M. I can see the extra year meaning less to Tkachuk because he still has another payday coming but the 8th year plays a big factor in Gaudreau’s deal. I could see Tkachuk signing for 6-8 years if he is serious about wanting to stay long term.

I understand that. But to a player, $84M over 7 years is better than $84M over 8 years. I was suggesting that $88M over 8 years would be about the same as $84M over 7 years.

[DJones]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

I understand that. But to a player, $84M over 7 years is better than $84M over 8 years. I was suggesting that $88M over 8 years would be about the same as $84M over 7 years.

It's guaranteed cash.

Injuries or retirement can happen by 36

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by kipperiggy

re posted from the garbage day thread, might be better here.

Now I am no cap expert, and don't have the hockey experience of many on this forum, but it's Saturday and I don't want to work overtime lol.

If Monahan can return to form after both hips being done, why can't he slot into the #2 or #3 C? I know everyone is counting him out, but I'm not ready to just yet. Not only that, but Backlund has shown us time and again he can step up to #2 at times but age will start to catch up I know.

What if we can re-sign Johnny, Chucky, and Bread and roll with something like:

Gaudreau - Lindholm - Toffoli -
Keeps chemistry from the top line and hopefully gets Toffoli back to the level we saw him play in Montreal, since he needs someone to dish him the puck. I have no problem with Lindy being our #1 and not sure why the other thread is suggesting Stutzle etc.

Dube - Monahan - Tkachuk
Maybe a bit slow but Dube can bring some speed, Chucky can show us if he can carry a line.

Bread - Backlund - Coleman - Don't know why we ever break up the 3B line (or why we have not called them that yet). Also don't know how Bread gets more than Lindholm, hopefully can get him signed around $4.0-4.5m and not the $5.0m+ people are projecting.

Then try and trade Lucic to someone trying to reach the cap floor (or he could retire or be bought out if he doesn't want to move, his actual cash owing is actually only around $1.0m this year if I'm recalling correctly which would be attractive to a team potentially or less on the table if he wants to retire). Re-sign Lewis especially and Jarnkrok if the price is right otherwise get a young gun or two up here to win a spot. They are getting their own playoff experience right now! Lewis' experience was key in the run but remember all our guys have got more now.

For Defense Gudbranson at least hopefully wants more stability but Zadorov might be gone, unless he wants stability too, since he's also bounced around a bit too. I think another year of experience for our guys is a good thing as 3 of them are still relatively young (Hanifin, Andersson, and Kylington especially if he can bulk up). Stone also strikes me as a guy looking for stability so could be enticed to re-sign especially if Zad goes and opens up a top 6 spot. Alternatively if both Gudbrandson and Zad are gone it gives Mackey or Valimaki a chance to win a spot like Oliver did. And let's hope and pray that Tanev's recovery is more like 4 than 6 months.

As someone who has up and left my place of employment to move for a secondment and then returned home, there is something to be said for the known (being Calgary for JG).

With Connor making $12.5m and Leon making $8.5m up north, if Johnny and Chucky want to stay, it might be easier than we think, given their stars outperformed ours. If they stay, this team is certainly closer to Cup than many teams that have the cap space to add them. So why wouldn't you want to stick with the known?

Anyway, just some ideas.

The cost of the 9 forwards you’ve proposed would be in or around the neighborhood of $54M and that’s if Lucic’s entire cap hit is removed in your scenario which I’m very skeptical of as I don’t see him making the decision to retire before his $3M signing bonus is due.

Also, for Treliving to execute a trade in time, he’d have to receive a list of 8 teams Milan is willing to be traded to and I suspect most teams aren’t in a position to know exactly how much they will sit above or below next season’s cap floor. There’s just not enough time to do all that when Treliving he’s tied up with Johnny’s situation. So in the grand scheme of things, we’re probably stuck with Looch which would be roughly $60M tied up to just 10 forwards.

Add the 2 goalies under contract and we’re up to $67M which leads to $15M for 7 defensemen and 3 forwards in your scenario...so yeah...like I said previously, players will have to go. Good players.

[442scotty]

Can the flames make lower first year contracts in long term deals while they wait for lucic and monahans contracts to expire?

[timbit]

Originally Posted by 442scotty

Can the flames make lower first year contracts in long term deals while they wait for lucic and monahans contracts to expire?

Unfortunately, all that counts is the AAV. The average “per annum” of the total contract is what counts.

So yes they can but it has no impact on total salary cap.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by timbit

Unfortunately, all that counts is the AAV. The average “per annum” of the total contract is what counts.

So yes they can but it has no impact on total salary cap.

In fact, it lessens the present day FMV of the contract to make payments later as opposed to earlier.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by 442scotty

Can the flames make lower first year contracts in long term deals while they wait for lucic and monahans contracts to expire?

They may be able to pull off a Kevin Lebanc for Oliver Kylington’s next contract. This is essentially his first breakout year and the team might be able to get a cheaper one year deal out of him. But even then, it wouldn’t save enough to make any drastic differences to the Flames financial situation.

Unfortunately for the team’s current cap situation, 3 forwards demolished their previous career highs and are now due for massive paydays because of it. Their leverage also will allow them to do so and I could see them sticking it to Tre with the way some of their past negotiations went, especially Mangiapane.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

The cost of the 9 forwards you’ve proposed would be in or around the neighborhood of $54M and that’s if Lucic’s entire cap hit is removed in your scenario which I’m very skeptical of as I don’t see him making the decision to retire before his $3M signing bonus is due.

If Lucic "retired" after his $3M bonus was paid, he'd have to pay it back. Or, if the Flames chose to allow him to keep it, it would count against the salary cap.

It all counts, teams can't pay money to players and not have it count against the cap.

The fact that it's considered a signing bonus will not affect his decision to retire.

The most likely scenario is getting rid of Lucic's cap hit next year is pay his bonus and then trade him to a team who has to pay him $1M and gets a $4M cap hit. So, a team that needs to reach the cap floor and doesn't want to pay much to do it.

But Lucic would need to waive to go to such a team, which seams unlikely.

A better bet is a player on LTIR who's salary is mostly being paid by insurance.

But usually the team trading for such a player gets something for doing so, and sometimes the cost is not cheap.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

If Lucic "retired" after his $3M bonus was paid, he'd have to pay it back. Or, if the Flames chose to allow him to keep it, it would count against the salary cap.

It all counts, teams can't pay money to players and not have it count against the cap.

The fact that it's considered a signing bonus will not affect his decision to retire.

The most likely scenario is getting rid of Lucic's cap hit next year is pay his bonus and then trade him to a team who has to pay him $1M and gets a $4M cap hit. So, a team that needs to reach the cap floor and doesn't want to pay much to do it.

But Lucic would need to waive to go to such a team, which seams unlikely.

A better bet is a player on LTIR who's salary is mostly being paid by insurance.

But usually the team trading for such a player gets something for doing so, and sometimes the cost is not cheap.

Yes that’s right, that’s why I’ve been harping on CP about the team’s cap crunch all season long. I’ve seen tons of pie in the sky stuff and absolute best case scenarios when in reality, the team’s cap situation could be even more dire than I had previously thought.

Monahan’s situation for instance could be very complicated as I don’t exactly know how buying out injured players works nor do I know how much demand a player coming off of 2 separate hip injuries will have.

Lastly, I’ve always had Lucic penciled in for next season. Any talks of him retiring or being traded seemed farfetched to me. We’ve heard nothing from him about retirement and he has one of the more restrictive trade clauses in the league.

[Jason14h]

Lucic will be playing for Seattle after his bonus is paid , don’t worry

Monahan will start on LTIR until Flames have another injury to offset it

This is the way