Vaccines don't cause autism (duh)

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Further evidence that Universities are interested in money first, education second.

I had a lot of fun trying to explain what electives were to Europeans when I went abroad last year.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Thor

Mandatory vaccination?? Umm Public school has all kinds of rules, regulations for children to attend, the fact they now legally demand vaccinations is just logical.

If parents cannot fathom supporting science, then they can choose to home school, so its not about fascist government policies.

Its amazing anyone can argue this is about freedom or resistance to the government telling us what to do. When 99.99% of science says the measles shot is effective, and your 1 kid who is a special flower shows up at a public school without that shot and infects others, this becomes a matter of public policy.

This is an important distinction, actually. Thank you for making it.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by rubecube

I had a lot of fun trying to explain what electives were to Europeans when I went abroad last year.

Meanwhile, European universities are basically starved for funds. Say what you will about the university fund-raising machine, our academics (scientists, particularly) receive far more research and facility dollars than their European counterparts.

Part of the greatness of the North American university is the pride that wealthy and successful graduates bestow on their alma maters through endowments, sponsorships etc...

A very good friend of mine is a post-doc Danish microbiologist doing some fantastically cool stuff on MS. Last time she was here, I arranged her to have a tour of the UofC labs, and she was blown away. People over there really have to make due on the old shoe string budget.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by peter12

Meanwhile, European universities are basically starved for funds. Say what you will about the university fund-raising machine, our academics (scientists, particularly) receive far more research and facility dollars than their European counterparts.

Part of the greatness of the North American university is the pride that wealthy and successful graduates bestow on their alma maters through endowments, sponsorships etc...

The other big difference being that universities in Europe aren't nearly as classist as their North American counterparts. It's all well and good that the universities here have nice trinkets for their research, but it doesn't mean much when researchers are fleeing for the private sector in order to service their massive student loan payments.

It's ludicrous that 60% of a B.A. in Canadian universities consists of classes not related to the primary field of study. I think this where your background of coming from a wealthier family who paid for most of your studies clouds your perception a bit (unless I'm confusing you with another poster). We're basically talking about an extra $15k in tuition and related expenses, not to mention the lost wages and interest payments on superfluous courses. That's substantial to a great many people.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by rubecube

The other big difference being that universities in Europe aren't nearly as classist as their North American counterparts. It's all well and good that the universities here have nice trinkets for their research, but doesn't do a whole lot of good when researchers are fleeing for the private sector in order to service their massive student loan payments.

It's ludicrous that 60% of a B.A. in Canadian universities consists of classes not related to the primary field of study.

Are you kidding me? European universities are much more classist, but of a different type. The ruling class of England only comes from Oxford or Cambridge.

The last bit is true, but the BA has been stripped of most of its difficult content. I was fairly lucky to get a decent enough BA at the UofC, but that was because I had canny mentors who guided me through the BS. A good arts student should be comfortable in at least a second language, had some exposure to classical languages, know university-level mathematics, and have a strong grounding in philosophy and literature. Strangely, that would make for an extremely competitively employable person.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

I don't know that I'm on board with the argument that all undergraduate studies should be strictly utilitarian. There is a broader purpose; this isn't trade school.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

I don't know that I'm on board with the argument that all undergraduate studies should be strictly utilitarian. There is a broader purpose; this isn't trade school.

There is this new trend in "certification" in post-secondary. Stupid stuff like "corporate communication," "event coordination," and "public relations." All boring, dumb stuff that makes the university a lot of money, and churns out a bunch of useless graduates.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

I don't know that I'm on board with the argument that all undergraduate studies should be strictly utilitarian. There is a broader purpose; this isn't trade school.

Not only am I not on board, I see one of the greatest strengths of a liberal arts education is the broad range of studies required to fulfil undergrad degree requirements.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Yeah. I don't think the couple of courses I took in the philosophy of aesthetics / art have any practical usefulness whatsoever but they did help my perspective and have allowed me to get a lot more enjoyment out of many things in life. Which in turn becomes part of who a person is. It's developmental.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by peter12

Are you kidding me? European universities are much more classist, but of a different type. The ruling class of England only comes from Oxford or Cambridge.

There are the obvious exceptions, and these are certainly two of them. I think the European transfer credit system has certainly leveled the playing field to a degree, as has publicly-funded post-secondary studies in various countries.

The last bit is true, but the BA has been stripped of most of its difficult content. I was fairly lucky to get a decent enough BA at the UofC, but that was because I had canny mentors who guided me through the BS. A good arts student should be comfortable in at least a second language, had some exposure to classical languages, know university-level mathematics, and have a strong grounding in philosophy and literature. Strangely, that would make for an extremely competitively employable person.

And I agree with most of this, but the problem is that for some students this is much more achievable than for others. The time needed to learn and excel in the subjects you've listed is something that those who have to work jobs during their studies don't have access to. Add in a learning disability or two and it becomes even more difficult.

Obviously life's not fair and all that, but we're basically asking the already disadvantaged to provide disproportionately more towards the university, while receiving disproportionately less than their more advantaged colleagues.

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

I don't know that I'm on board with the argument that all undergraduate studies should be strictly utilitarian. There is a broader purpose; this isn't trade school.

Yeah, and I agree with that. I just think the ratio is skewed in the wrong direction.

[Knut]

http://kuow.org/post/seattle-kids-ha...on-rate-rwanda

Seattle Kids have lower polio Vaccination rates than Rwanda

Time to have a health advisory for up to date vaccines to some States ?

Image below shows the declining rates of Vaccination.

Spoiler!

[peter12]

Originally Posted by rubecube

The other big difference being that universities in Europe aren't nearly as classist as their North American counterparts. It's all well and good that the universities here have nice trinkets for their research, but it doesn't mean much when researchers are fleeing for the private sector in order to service their massive student loan payments.

It's ludicrous that 60% of a B.A. in Canadian universities consists of classes not related to the primary field of study. I think this where your background of coming from a wealthier family who paid for most of your studies clouds your perception a bit (unless I'm confusing you with another poster). We're basically talking about an extra $15k in tuition and related expenses, not to mention the lost wages and interest payments on superfluous courses. That's substantial to a great many people.

No. I worked through both of my degrees.

[SportsJunky]

Seattle? Damn Hipsters!

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by peter12

No. I worked through both of my degrees.

My bad. Must have gotten you confused with another poster.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by rubecube

My bad. Must have gotten you confused with another poster.

No silver spoons here.

[Street Pharmacist]

Working isn't enough anymore. A have a student working for me that just got into pharmacy at UBC. $15000 just for tuition. Add in $1500-2000 per month for living expenses and I have no idea how you don't graduate with a Hundred thousand in debt

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Working isn't enough anymore. A have a student working for me that just got into pharmacy at UBC. $15000 just for tuition. Add in $1500-2000 per month for living expenses and I have no idea how you don't graduate with a Hundred thousand in debt

Yes, it is absolutely crazy how much professional schools are charging, especially in fields like law, which don't guarantee decent high-paying jobs anymore.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by peter12

Yes, it is absolutely crazy how much professional schools are charging, especially in fields like law, which don't guarantee decent high-paying jobs anymore.

We're sidetracking the thread in a major way but, to add to this, as well as yours and CHL's other point regarding how post-secondary shouldn't be strictly utilitarian, I think there's also a problem that's been borne out of some of the admission requirements for things like graduate studies and law. I've known quite a few individuals who've taken the path of least resistance into these programs because they've been primarily concerned with keeping a high GPA, and I think the end result is graduates who aren't nearly as well-rounded as their peers.

I'm not saying there shouldn't be a high-standard for getting into these programs, but I do think more weight should be given to course selection and difficulty. Someone working on a difficult B.A., with an equally challenging minor, and sporting a 3.5 GPA is probably as good (if not better) of a candidate as someone who's only focused on their major and cherry-picked GPA boosters for their electives. I don't know how much it will help, but UVic recently updated their grading system so that your transcripts show your letter grade, percentile grade, and the median percentile grade for the class.

[Knut]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Working isn't enough anymore. A have a student working for me that just got into pharmacy at UBC. $15000 just for tuition. Add in $1500-2000 per month for living expenses and I have no idea how you don't graduate with a Hundred thousand in debt

I had 100k debt coming out of professional school. While i was in Optometry school the tuition increased 10-15% per year (it was an unregulated program in Ontario). I even had to pay $3000 for the semester i spent in Sweden on an externship.

[Thor]

This video is all kinds of terrific.

https://www.facebook.com/AntiVaxxSin...4724603301893/