Please say you're joking. Vaccines have literally saved millions of lives worldwide, possibly even more. I hope you don't have kids some day and refuse to get them polio / MMR vaccines etc. Come on man, common sense and rational scientific data say you're way off the grid here.
what does saving millions of lives have to do with it? doesn't mean it can't have harmful effects as well, especially the poorly made ones. no doubt vaccines have prevented diseases, but there's also no doubt that they put in some questionable material into some vaccines.
what does saving millions of lives have to do with it? doesn't mean it can't have harmful effects as well, especially the poorly made ones. no doubt vaccines have prevented diseases, but there's also no doubt that they put in some questionable material into some vaccines.
No there isn't "doubt". What's harmful?
Last edited by Street Pharmacist; 02-21-2015 at 11:26 AM.
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what does saving millions of lives have to do with it? doesn't mean it can't have harmful effects as well, especially the poorly made ones. no doubt vaccines have prevented diseases, but there's also no doubt that they put in some questionable material into some vaccines.
And if you go see a doctor before running out blind and getting a vaccine, they'll tell you whether or not it is safe for you (or a child) to get vaccinated. There are some people who cannot get vaccinated, because of substances in the vaccine, but that has less to do with the vaccine itself, but more so with a person's physiology.
Aside from the anti-vaccine debunking aspect of that video, psychology is such an interesting and useful subject. I am not an expert by any means, but I like to read about related subjects, and it is really useful in understanding what makes you and other people tick. It's actually made me a lot more tolerant towards people.
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When he says that hearing a hypothesis and seeing it as logical is akin to saying that it fits ones biases shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the empirical method and the scientific method.
When one sees a hypothesis as logical it is to say that the scientific method can be applied to it whereby theories, predictions, experiments and observations work cyclically through inductive or deductive reasoning to create a further understanding of the theory; whether the theory needs modification, if it's completely erroneous, if there is mild correlation etc.
For a video to start by saying it will analyze an issue scientifically, then to immediately show a complete misunderstanding of what the word science actually means kind of kills its legitimacy. This isn't to say anything about vaccination, just that the guy in the video makes a fundamental flaw in his argument in terms of science.
Here's my question, and I'd like to know if the vaccine proponents can answer it without insulting me; is it true that the preservatives in the vaccines are cumulative within the body and it is the successive injections that cause problems and not each individual injection? I've heard the argument from atleast a moderately reputable source and want to know if you guys that support vaccines understand and agree/disagree with the idea of cumulative effects. (I'm in the I don't know the answer yet and have an open mind to discussion about it group)
Quote:
Originally Posted by undercoverbrother
Do you mind me asking who you reputable souce was?
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcGold
I didn't miss the point of anything. Are we only disregarding logical fallacies when it suits you? Or does being condescending just come naturally?
AcGold, you have to expect to take it on the chin in this thread.
This was your initial post.
I asked for the "reputable source"? You have never provided it.
To me it seems disingenuous to me that you pick at posts, but have yet to substantiate your intial post in this thread.
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Corporal Jean-Marc H. BECHARD, 6 Aug 1993
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sliver
Just ignore me...I'm in a mood today.
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I didn't miss the point of anything. Are we only disregarding logical fallacies when it suits you? Or does being condescending just come naturally?
As naturally as missing the point of that video did for you, I suppose. Seriously, it's like you watched that one sentence and then turned off the video.
He's explaining what cognitive bias is in that piece. He is not explaining the scientific method. He's explaining how people will latch onto things that make sense to them on first blush, without necessarily subjecting them to experimental test.
In other words, "how people come to believe stupid things"... like that vaccines cause autism.
^I watched the whole video. That being said, his premise is logically flawed. The preposition he used was a logical fallacy and shows a fundamental gap in his knowledge. Surely people would massacre an anti-vaxxer video with an illogical premise but since it aligns with the agenda I get insulted for pointing it out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by undercoverbrother
AcGold, you have to expect to take it on the chin in this thread.
This was your initial post.
I asked for the "reputable source"? You have never provided it.
To me it seems disingenuous to me that you pick at posts, but have yet to substantiate your intial post in this thread.
I was going to post a source, but then I saw the witch hunt and the intellectual fascism going on in here so I didn't. There isn't a debate, it's just hate. Yet nobody ever acknowledges that fact. In this thread you align with the vaccine agenda or you are a lesser human being. Yet you're surprised when I don't throw sources around to be ridiculed.
The discussion is so skewed it's impossible to actually converse. For example a post that states there are no dangers to vaccines gets lines of thanks when it's simply not true. There are dangers; children with seizures or developmental issues will often be told not to get vaccines because it can cause further damage. This will be done in a hush hush behind closed doors talk with a doctor because disparaging vaccines in any way is taboo for much of the medical community. Similar to this thread.
Maybe if the witch hunt and hate stops I'll post sources. The reason I don't is because obliging you is begging to be grouped up on ten times worse than I already have been. Take it on the chin? Nope, I won't waste my emotional energy here. Go ahead, hate away.
I was going to post a source, but then I saw the witch hunt and the intellectual fascism going on in here so I didn't. There isn't a debate here, it's just hate. Yet nobody ever acknowledges that fact. In this thread you align with the vaccine agenda or you deserve to die, yet you're surprised when I don't throw sources around to be ridiculed.
For shame CP. Maybe if the witch hunt and hate stops I'll post sources. The reason I don't is because obliging you is begging to be grouped up on ten times worse than I already have been. Take it on the chin? Nope, I won't waste my emotional currency here. Go ahead, hate away.
Speaking of fallacies...
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^I watched the whole video. That being said, his premise is logically flawed. The preposition he used was a logical fallacy and shows a fundamental flaw in his knowledge. Surely people would massacre an anti-vaxxer video with an illogical premise but since it aligns with the agenda I get insulted for pointing it out.
I was going to post a source, but then I saw the witch hunt and the intellectual fascism going on in here so I didn't. There isn't a debate here, it's just hate. Yet nobody ever acknowledges that fact. In this thread you align with the vaccine agenda or you deserve to die, yet you're surprised when I don't throw sources around to be ridiculed.
For shame CP. Maybe if the witch hunt and hate stops I'll post sources. The reason I don't is because obliging you is begging to be grouped up on ten times worse than I already have been.
AcGold, sometimes you have to be willing to accept the slings and arrows to move a matter forward.
What if you/your source is correct...?
Without providing it you come across as petulant.
Also, I don't reckon you were gonna post a source. To be honest, I don't think you had one. I think you were using a hearsay source and can't produce anything.
To be clear I don't hate you, hell I don't even know you. I might actually like you if we ever met.
Be I don't like your position, or your approach to discussing it.
It comes across as childish.
__________________
Captain James P. DeCOSTE, CD, 18 Sep 1993
Corporal Jean-Marc H. BECHARD, 6 Aug 1993
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sliver
Just ignore me...I'm in a mood today.
Last edited by undercoverbrother; 02-23-2015 at 10:19 AM.
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^I watched the whole video. That being said, his premise is logically flawed. The preposition he used was a logical fallacy and shows a fundamental gap in his knowledge. Surely people would massacre an anti-vaxxer video with an illogical premise but since it aligns with the agenda I get insulted for pointing it out.
You're still missing the point of what he said and provide no valid substantiation for claiming otherwise other than "ermagherd logical fallacy" when you don't get that he's explaining the fallacy, not endorsing it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcGold
I was going to post a source, but then I saw the witch hunt and the intellectual fascism going on in here so I didn't. There isn't a debate, it's just hate. Yet nobody ever acknowledges that fact. In this thread you align with the vaccine agenda or you deserve to die, yet you're surprised when I don't throw sources around to be ridiculed.
For shame CP. Maybe if the witch hunt and hate stops I'll post sources. The reason I don't is because obliging you is begging to be grouped up on ten times worse than I already have been. Take it on the chin? Nope, I won't waste my emotional energy here. Go ahead, hate away.
For shame CP? You are being a child. How about you either post your sources or piss off? If you give a crap about the 'scientific method' as you suggest you do, then you'd want to post a source and have it subjected to critical scrutiny to see if it holds up. If it does, great, we've all learned something. If it doesn't, then you need to reevaluate your position.
I suspect the latter is the point that's making you very uncomfortable about providing a source. You're very happy to call out others arguments, but won't give yours an open and honest look.
My mind is always open to be changed - the fact that I support gay marriage (I didn't when I was a teenager) and support / understand the importance of the flu vaccine (I used to be of the opinion that "my immune system is there for a reason") is evidence of that. But I hold the bar for evidence higher than crap pseudoscience blogs full of nonsense, and crap like WorldTruth.tv.
You can cry 'intellectual fascism' (lol) all you want, but your babyish conduct does not an argument make.
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^I watched the whole video. That being said, his premise is logically flawed. The preposition he used was a logical fallacy and shows a fundamental gap in his knowledge. Surely people would massacre an anti-vaxxer video with an illogical premise but since it aligns with the agenda I get insulted for pointing it out.
I was going to post a source, but then I saw the witch hunt and the intellectual fascism going on in here so I didn't. There isn't a debate, it's just hate. Yet nobody ever acknowledges that fact. In this thread you align with the vaccine agenda or you are a lesser human being. Yet you're surprised when I don't throw sources around to be ridiculed.
The discussion is so skewed it's impossible to actually converse. For example a post that states there are no dangers to vaccines gets lines of thanks when it's simply not true. There are dangers; children with seizures or developmental issues will often be told not to get vaccines because it can cause further damage. This will be done in a hush hush behind closed doors talk with a doctor because disparaging vaccines in any way is taboo for much of the medical community. Similar to this thread.
Maybe if the witch hunt and hate stops I'll post sources. The reason I don't is because obliging you is begging to be grouped up on ten times worse than I already have been. Take it on the chin? Nope, I won't waste my emotional energy here. Go ahead, hate away.
foot-stomping and claiming this is a 'debate' and one's opinion or unfounded belief is somehow determinative of scientific fact? check.
misunderstanding basic issues of immunity and public health? check.
vague anecdotal 'evidence' and misrepresenting pro-health position on the applicability of vaccines to all? check.
allegation of medical community conspiracy to promote vaccines? check.
complaint of bullying or 'intellectual fascism' by science-accepters? check.
what we've got here folks is a pro-diseaser. Nothing to see here... move along before you get sucked down the rabbit-hole of stupidity and risk losing your mind at how such idiocy exists in a civilized culture.
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I am certainly not a expert on the myriad of logical fallacies which seem to dominate both sides of this debate. I base my opinion on what the numbers and studies show. That is that Vaccines pure and simple work and have very low risk of potential side effects.
What AcGold is doing is trying to muddy the waters around the debate when it is very simple IMO. Vaccines have vastly reduced the amount of deaths/hospitalizations related to communicable diseases. A small percentage of people have had side effects from the Vaccines, but the lives saved is in the Millions. I would go so far as to say the Vaccines are one of the greatest inventions in the history of mankind.
Data and the scientific method back up the benefit of Vaccines and there should be no debate at all.
I am sure people debate the efficacy of seat-belts too though.
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