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Old 01-10-2019, 08:21 AM   #301
GordonBlue
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I am getting concerned about the new rules. especially when they can come into your home and demand a sample 2 hours after you may have been driving.


another tool for people who hate their neighbours. if you have issues with yours, don't have a couple of beer when you get home from work and sit down to watch a hockey game.
why couldn't your hateful neighbour call the cops when you get home and say he believes you've been drinking and driving?

also seems wrong that I could take the bus to the bar, be sitting there for a couple of drinks but could still be forced to blow.

not much would stop the cops from randomly going to any bar and just testing everyone. then what? does everyone who has a car in the parking lot then get charged?
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Old 01-10-2019, 08:29 AM   #302
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I am getting concerned about the new rules. especially when they can come into your home and demand a sample 2 hours after you may have been driving.


another tool for people who hate their neighbours. if you have issues with yours, don't have a couple of beer when you get home from work and sit down to watch a hockey game.
why couldn't your hateful neighbour call the cops when you get home and say he believes you've been drinking and driving?

also seems wrong that I could take the bus to the bar, be sitting there for a couple of drinks but could still be forced to blow.

not much would stop the cops from randomly going to any bar and just testing everyone. then what? does everyone who has a car in the parking lot then get charged?
The thing is, and I'm perfectly willing to be corrected by MBates, is that while these powers seemingly exist and are within the realm of the Police's authority most would say:

"Done be ridiculous. The Police would never do that. Thats just fear-mongering."

And they might be right. But that doesnt mean that the Police cant do that.
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Old 01-10-2019, 08:31 AM   #303
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Are you required to open the door for a cop? Can you either pretend you aren't home, or see it's cops and just not answer? Or say "Dave's not here, man" and not open the door?
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Old 01-10-2019, 08:33 AM   #304
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Are you required to open the door for a cop? Can you either pretend you aren't home, or see it's cops and just not answer? Or say "Dave's not here, man" and not open the door?
Who knows. If they can breathalyze you a couple hours after you got home they're probably allowed to break down your door too.
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Old 01-10-2019, 08:35 AM   #305
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The thing is, and I'm perfectly willing to be corrected by MBates, is that while these powers seemingly exist and are within the realm of the Police's authority most would say:

"Done be ridiculous. The Police would never do that. Thats just fear-mongering."

And they might be right. But that doesnt mean that the Police cant do that.
and while the vast majority of cops probably wouldn't abuse the power, I have no doubt that there will be a fair percentage that will.

I usually assume about 10% of any group can and will do bad things. cops are no different.
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Old 01-10-2019, 08:38 AM   #306
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and while the vast majority of cops probably wouldn't abuse the power, I have no doubt that there will be a fair percentage that will.

I usually assume about 10% of any group can and will do bad things. cops are no different.
All well and good, Police get the normal distribution of idiots like most professions.

The fact of the matter though is that we shouldnt even be talking about this. Its not about the small percentage who might abuse the authority, they shouldnt even have it to begin with. Its ridiculous.
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Old 01-10-2019, 08:42 AM   #307
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Imagine if a cop has a relative that is a toxicologist?
cha ching
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Old 01-10-2019, 08:58 AM   #308
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I think this really is fear mongering. From the canada.ca website...


Quote:
Recognizing that there may be situations where the post-driving consumption of alcohol was innocently done, the legislation provides for a more limited defence, (i.e., the driver drank after driving but had no reason to expect that they would be required to provide a sample of breath.)

It also states that the road side analysis is just step one and further tests would be mandatory at a police station at 15 minute intervals thus eliminating the requirements of a paid for toxicologist.



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The proposal would facilitate proving blood alcohol concentration by providing that the concentration at the time of testing is proven if certain conditions are met (e.g., two samples of breath at least 15 minutes apart, the approved instrument was calibrated against an approved alcohol standard before each test). These conditions are set out in accordance with the advice of the Alcohol Test Committee of the Canadian Society of Forensic Science (the scientific body that advises the Government). This will avoid the need to call forensic toxicologists to testify at trial and will contribute to efficiencies.

Definitely would like to hear an mbates opinion. It seems reasonable to exclude the slam and drive defense as well as the flee and drink defense.
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Old 01-10-2019, 09:05 AM   #309
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How exactly is the 2 hour time-frame from driving and exiting the vehicle verified?
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Old 01-10-2019, 09:08 AM   #310
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How exactly is the 2 hour time-frame from driving and exiting the vehicle verified?
Drones. Presumably.

If we're going to become a Police state they may as well go all the way. When do the CCTV cameras get installed?
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Old 01-10-2019, 09:12 AM   #311
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How exactly is the 2 hour time-frame from driving and exiting the vehicle verified?
Thermodynamics. They test your car engine for temperature, do some fancy math based on air temp, engine block size and material, and presence or absence of ferry farts and acquire the time you parked that way.
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Old 01-10-2019, 09:17 AM   #312
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How exactly is the 2 hour time-frame from driving and exiting the vehicle verified?

There's the nightmare scenario where police bust into a bar a randomly test non driving drinkers. Or likewise show up at your door unannounced and test you for no reason. That's not real. The likely situation where this will come into play is people who blow a .04. Now they can wait and see if your bac is increasing over time or decreasing. Even more likely is that you were in an accident at 7pm. The cops find you at home at 830 pm and give you tests to see what your bac is now even though you were driving an hour and a half ago. In that case you know or should know that a test is coming your way and you are not able to drink yourself out of a charge.
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Old 01-10-2019, 09:45 AM   #313
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Originally Posted by GordonBlue View Post
I am getting concerned about the new rules. especially when they can come into your home and demand a sample 2 hours after you may have been driving.


another tool for people who hate their neighbours. if you have issues with yours, don't have a couple of beer when you get home from work and sit down to watch a hockey game.
why couldn't your hateful neighbour call the cops when you get home and say he believes you've been drinking and driving?

also seems wrong that I could take the bus to the bar, be sitting there for a couple of drinks but could still be forced to blow.

not much would stop the cops from randomly going to any bar and just testing everyone. then what? does everyone who has a car in the parking lot then get charged?
Mbates posted this a while ago and everyone seems to be ignoring this part, which is basically just saying that if you did something bad with your car, best to not drink at home right after, ie-hit and run:

(5) No person commits an offence under paragraph (1)(b) if

(a) they consumed alcohol after ceasing to operate the conveyance;

(b) after ceasing to operate the conveyance, they had no reasonable expectation that they would be required to provide a sample of breath or blood; and

(c) their alcohol consumption is consistent with their blood alcohol concentration as determined in accordance with subsection 320.31(1) or (2) and with their having had, at the time when they were operating the conveyance, a blood alcohol concentration that was less than 80 mg of alcohol in 100 mL of blood.

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Old 01-10-2019, 09:47 AM   #314
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How exactly is the 2 hour time-frame from driving and exiting the vehicle verified?
And how can they prove the alcohol was consumed prior to getting home, not after getting home?
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Old 01-10-2019, 09:50 AM   #315
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I'm sure cops would try charging you and screwing up your whole life for no reason.
I feel like you're being sarcastic here, but you have to remember the vast majority are talking about the CPS in this thread. The CPS proudly elected their union president who they knew falsified police reports, made up charges and attacked an innocent (for the time) passenger. Had it not been for a video from a random innocent bystander, that's absolutely what the plan was. Giving this police force even more power to #### up someone's life without cause is a mistake.
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Old 01-10-2019, 09:51 AM   #316
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This is completely ignoring the section I posted above and the article is misleading. For the police to do this, you would have to have done something pretty serious to get tested within the two hours. For instance if you hit a pedestrian and took off, dipped into a bar, you cant tell the police you were so sook up that you guzzled 8 beers in two hour, that is why I am now drunk.

Something like hit and run should cause some to think there may be a reason for them to be tested within the two hours. That is if you are a reasonable thinker.
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Old 01-10-2019, 09:53 AM   #317
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And how can they prove the alcohol was consumed prior to getting home, not after getting home?
This is the point, if you do something bad with your car and take off, don't go home to drink it off.
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Old 01-10-2019, 09:55 AM   #318
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Back when I was a kid a guy pulled out of a bar lot, straight in front of us and we t-boned him. After a discussion with my dad, he drove the car back to the bar, parked it, and went inside and had more drinks. Turns out it was his girlfriends car, and he hadn't even asked to take it. I don't think the future went well for him.
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Old 01-10-2019, 10:02 AM   #319
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I feel like you're being sarcastic here, but you have to remember the vast majority are talking about the CPS in this thread. The CPS proudly elected their union president who they knew falsified police reports, made up charges and attacked an innocent (for the time) passenger. Had it not been for a video from a random innocent bystander, that's absolutely what the plan was. Giving this police force even more power to #### up someone's life without cause is a mistake.

No not sarcastic but it didn't sound the way I intended. I really do without any question believe that cops will charge you without merit simply because they don't like you. It happens all the time. However there is a pretty well established defense provided by the government so I;m not that worried about it.
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Old 01-10-2019, 10:18 AM   #320
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This is completely ignoring the section I posted above and the article is misleading. For the police to do this, you would have to have done something pretty serious to get tested within the two hours. For instance if you hit a pedestrian and took off, dipped into a bar, you cant tell the police you were so sook up that you guzzled 8 beers in two hour, that is why I am now drunk.

Something like hit and run should cause some to think there may be a reason for them to be tested within the two hours. That is if you are a reasonable thinker.
so, it's true?
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