[PGT] Flames lose 11th consecutive season opener. 4-3 Jets (OT)

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

I will say, the Flames did get away with quite a few penalties. With the lackluster 40 minutes (2nd and 3rd period), I will just take the point and move on. For example, I really think Hanifin should’ve gotten 5 and a game for his boarding on Connor and Andersson cleared the puck without any other stick deflecting it. Both of those plays were at crucial times and the Jets could’ve capitalized on them.

I agree. But I would counter with the fact that there should have been a hooking penalty on Nordstrom's breakaway, creating a 4 on 4. Instead, they call a very weak one on Lindholm right after, creating a 5 on 3 which results in a tie game. That sequence, along with the Andersson/Laine sequence in the 1st, were the 2 reasons that the Jets won.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Good - Dube, Andersson, Tanev and Hanafin

Awful - Mangipane, Nordstrom, and Bennett (the bar is so low and he still struggles to get over it)

Okay - Pretty much everyone else

Shouldn't be in the NHL - Lucic and Ward

Really sick of watching a team where the coaching staff have no answers to adjustments made by the opposition. Flames dominated in the first, then the Jets adjusted to what the Flames were doing, and the game was over. Never a counter adjustment, just beating their faces into the same brick wall. This team is going no where as long as that meathead remains behind the bench.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I agree. But I would counter with the fact that there should have been a hooking penalty on Nordstrom's breakaway, creating a 4 on 4. Instead, they call a very weak one on Lindholm right after, creating a 5 on 3 which results in a tie game. That sequence, along with the Andersson/Laine sequence in the 1st, were the 2 reasons that the Jets won.

That’s fair. Just some inconsistent reffing per usual. Some pretty weak calls and obvious non-calls.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

First game with a new system, and new teammates. Did his playing the puck lead to a goal against? Nope. It's a non-issue.

It should have. TWO miraculous saves, or it would have.

And then he did it again a minute later and it almost exploded in his face again.

I am a huge Markstrom fan. But I hate goalies trying to play the puck - the risk and downside far outweighs the benefits.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by New Era

Good - Dube, Andersson, Tanev and Hanafin

Awful - Mangipane, Nordstrom, and Bennett (the bar is so low and he still struggles to get over it)

Okay - Pretty much everyone else

Shouldn't be in the NHL - Lucic and Ward

Really sick of watching a team where the coaching staff have no answers to adjustments made by the opposition. Flames dominated in the first, then the Jets adjusted to what the Flames were doing, and the game was over. Never a counter adjustment, just beating their faces into the same brick wall. This team is going no where as long as that meathead remains behind the bench.

Arguably the Flames' best forward in the 3rd, once they moved him to Backlund's line and away from Lucic, who was easily the worst forward last night.

[BigFlameDog]

Originally Posted by PegCityFlamesFan

The amount of blame the ref calls is actually sad. It goes both ways, and is an easy cop out. There was a missed trip call on ehlers in the first 10 minutes, the puck being shot out of play and the phantom too many men as well. Don't get me wrong the Backlund whistle was bad, and the 5 on 3 was suspect but good christ enough with blaming the refs for a loss.

Before your post there was one dude blaming the loss on the refs. Couple other casual mentions of the reffing so you may be overreacting a wee bit with the "amount" and "sad" comment.

I admit I don't follow game threads though so maybe your comment belonged in there?

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by New Era

Good - Dube, Andersson, Tanev and Hanafin

Awful - Mangipane, Nordstrom, and Bennett (the bar is so low and he still struggles to get over it)

Okay - Pretty much everyone else

Shouldn't be in the NHL - Lucic and Ward

Really sick of watching a team where the coaching staff have no answers to adjustments made by the opposition. Flames dominated in the first, then the Jets adjusted to what the Flames were doing, and the game was over. Never a counter adjustment, just beating their faces into the same brick wall. This team is going no where as long as that meathead remains behind the bench.

With how this season is set-up, this is going to be a really good test for the coaching staff. I also don't have much faith in how the bench is constructed, but as always - it's not the only issue.

We can debate the depth players to the ends of the earth, but as long as the top players on this team continue to be disasters on the ice during even strength play this team is not going anywhere. Tkachuk and Lindholm started well, but they vanished. Monahan and Gaudreau were awful, again. You simply do not win when your top players don't get the job done, and putting up points on the power play is not nearly enough.

Johnny Gaudreau:
SF%: 41.67
xGF%: 35.52
SCF%: 37.50
HDCF%: 33.33

Sean Monahan:
SF%: 38.46
xGF%: 33.39
SCF%: 33.33
HDCF%: 33.33

They were actual disasters on the ice. They sucked. Top tier players usually don't dip this low, but look at that. Their GAF meter is disconnected from their boots. My patience with that duo as a fan has run out. Two calendar years of them being players that actively hurt the team.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

With how this season is set-up, this is going to be a really good test for the coaching staff. I also don't have much faith in how the bench is constructed, but as always - it's not the only issue.

We can debate the depth players to the ends of the earth, but as long as the top players on this team continue to be disasters on the ice during even strength play this team is not going anywhere. Tkachuk and Lindholm started well, but they vanished. Monahan and Gaudreau were awful, again. You simply do not win when your top players don't get the job done, and putting up points on the power play is not nearly enough.

Yes, the entire season is basically 6 sets of playoffs. Coaching adjustments are going to be HUGE. I hope Ward and his staff are up to the challenge.

Let's keep in mind though, it's one game. On the road.

And the players still have to execute.

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

With how this season is set-up, this is going to be a really good test for the coaching staff. I also don't have much faith in how the bench is constructed, but as always - it's not the only issue.

We can debate the depth players to the ends of the earth, but as long as the top players on this team continue to be disasters on the ice during even strength play this team is not going anywhere. Tkachuk and Lindholm started well, but they vanished. Monahan and Gaudreau were awful, again. You simply do not win when your top players don't get the job done, and putting up points on the power play is not nearly enough.

Johnny Gaudreau:
SF%: 41.67
xGF%: 35.52
SCF%: 37.50
HDCF%: 33.33

Sean Monahan:
SF%: 38.46
xGF%: 33.39
SCF%: 33.33
HDCF%: 33.33

They were actual disasters on the ice. They sucked. Top tier players usually don't dip this low, but look at that. Their GAF meter is disconnected from their boots. My patience with that duo as a fan has run out. Two calendar years of them being players that actively hurt the team.

Using these stats in such a small sample size is silly.

In my opinion.

And I am a huge proponent of advanced stats.

Overreacting to the first game of the year is always a good course of action though.

[Bonded]

If they keep Monahan and Gaudreau, I hope they break them up for a 10-game stretch.

Can Monahan play RW? Flames RW depth has got to be about worst in the league.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

Using these stats in such a small sample size is silly.

In my opinion.

And I am a huge proponent of advanced stats.

Overreacting to the first game of the year is always a good course of action though.

Not sure I agree. They looked like they sucked last night, and the underlying numbers showed exactly that. I find it useful to look at it like that.

If we want to expand the data set, here is 2019/2020 + 1 game from 2021:

Johnny Gaudreau:
SF%: 48.94
GF%: 48.78
xGF%: 48.91
SCF%: 48.53
HDCF%: 47.40

Sean Monahan:
SF%: 48.38
GF%: 44.05
xGF%: 47.90
SCF%: 46.80
HDCF%: 47.89

They hurt the team at even strength and have for some time.

Here they are during the playoffs:

Johnny Gaudreau:
SF%: 46.22
GF%: 42.86
xGF%: 41.84
SCF%: 42.45
HDCF%: 37.50

Sean Monahan:
SF%: 44.07
GF%: 37.50
xGF%: 44.41
SCF%: 41.96
HDCF%: 41.67

How big does the sample size have to get?

Here they are in the 2018/2019+2019/2020 Playoffs:

Johnny Gaudreau:
SF%: 47.34
GF%: 45.45
xGF%: 42.30
SCF%: 45.55
HDCF%: 36.51

Sean Monahan:
SF%: 46.63
GF%: 45.45
xGF%: 45.26
SCF%: 45.08
HDCF%: 40.91

It's so...

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Not sure I agree. They looked like they sucked last night, and the underlying numbers showed exactly that. I find it useful to look at it like that.

If we want to expand the data set, here is 2019/2020 + 1 game from 2021:

Johnny Gaudreau:
SF%: 48.94
GF%: 48.78
xGF%: 48.91
SCF%: 48.53
HDCF%: 47.40

Sean Monahan:
SF%: 48.38
GF%: 44.05
xGF%: 47.90
SCF%: 46.80
HDCF%: 47.89

They hurt the team at even strength and have for some time.

Oh yeah, I don't disagree. They were quite mediocre to bad last year.

I am just saying trotting out stats for one game is too small a sample size, where one or two chances either way have such a huge swing in the percentages.

Give it 10 games, then I'll start worrying. I am not that hopeful though, if they can't find or produce a top line winger. These guys aren't Crosby (they also are the lowest paid top line players in the league) they need RW that can help them. That is actually a top 6 player.

Breaking up the Tchakuk- Backlund - Mangiapane line was such a mistake, in my opinion.

But I am willing to watch how it all plays out.

This season is gonna be a #### show. I am just gonna enjoy the ride and not get too high or low.

[Dion]

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

Oh yeah, I don't disagree. They were quite mediocre to bad last year.

I am just saying trotting out stats for one game is too small a sample size, where one or two chances either way have such a huge swing in the percentages.

Give it 10 games, then I'll start worrying. I am not that hopeful though, if they can't find or produce a top line winger. These guys aren't Crosby (they also are the lowest paid top line players in the league) they need RW that can help them. That is actually a top 6 player.

Breaking up the Tchakuk- Backlund - Mangiapane line was such a mistake, in my opinion.

But I am willing to watch how it all plays out.

This season is gonna be a #### show. I am just gonna enjoy the ride and not get too high or low.

They had Lindholm last year. He's a top line winger, and they still did it.

The problem is Gaudreau and Monahan, not their RW. I don't want it to be, but it's just so...right in front of our face. They're the biggest problem this team has.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

Using these stats in such a small sample size is silly.

In my opinion.

And I am a huge proponent of advanced stats.

Overreacting to the first game of the year is always a good course of action though.

Yeah those stats are tough for what is game one of the season.

Easy to look at a 33% HDCF% and think that it’s brutal but That works out to 1 HDCF and 2 HDCA.

The biggest concern I’d have is that the main trend that continued is their inability to get to the danger area in the offensive zone.

Only giving up 2 HDCA actually isn’t that bad, it’s only being able to generate one great opportunity at 5v5 that’s the problem.

ComixZone cherry picked a little and left it out but the line had a corsi for rating of 50%, so in terms of shot attempts they were even. And as mentioned only giving up 2 HD chances against is actually pretty stout defensively for that line.

But Biggest issue remains and has for the last 18 months or so now - they just aren’t able to generate chances in the high danger area at 5v5.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Dion

This tip is so damn good.

[MisterJoji]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

I mean, it was just one game. He’s pretty inconsistent. However, that OT goal was a beauty. Got backchecked and lost his handle on the first shot attempt, but adjusted accordingly in a manner of a second and still managed to pull off a better shot than most. I wasn’t even mad.

That was a lucky bounce to me. Flubbed the first attempt which kind of put Markstrom in an awkward position and then quickly just fired a 2nd attempt which happened to go in. His first goal was way more impressive.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Yeah those stats are tough for what is game one of the season.

Easy to look at a 33% HDCF% and think that it’s brutal but That works out to 1 HDCF and 2 HDCA.

The biggest concern I’d have is that the main trend that continued is their inability to get to the danger area in the offensive zone.

Only giving up 2 HDCA actually isn’t that bad, it’s only being able to generate one great opportunity at 5v5 that’s the problem.

ComixZone cherry picked a little and left it out but the line had a corsi for rating of 50%, so in terms of shot attempts they were even. And as mentioned only giving up 2 HD chances against is actually pretty stout defensively for that line.

Biggest issue though is for the last 18 months or so now they just aren’t able to generate chances in the high danger area at 5v5.

I left out CF% mainly because my belief in the utility of the stat is fading. I like the more "high impact" moments.

Johnny took two slapshots from above the circle while his teammates scuttled off for a change...that's just not a play I think matters in the end - as they didn't even result in offensive zone faceoffs. Like you said though, even if you take CF% into consideration over time - the duo is still not strong.

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Yeah those stats are tough for what is game one of the season.

Easy to look at a 33% HDCF% and think that it’s brutal but That works out to 1 HDCF and 2 HDCA.

The biggest concern I’d have is that the main trend that continued is their inability to get to the danger area in the offensive zone.

Only giving up 2 HDCA actually isn’t that bad, it’s only being able to generate one great opportunity at 5v5 that’s the problem.

ComixZone cherry picked a little and left it out but the line had a corsi for rating of 50%, so in terms of shot attempts they were even. And as mentioned only giving up 2 HD chances against is actually pretty stout defensively for that line.

Biggest issue though is for the last 18 months or so now they just aren’t able to generate chances in the high danger area at 5v5.

Oh 100%.

These two generate their best chances off of the rush.

The current strategy in the offensive zone is NOT working for them.

I am not smart enough in hockey to know what will, if anything, work with the current roster make up.

I DO think it's an effort thing too. I will forgive them a game or two to get their feet under them, but they better be skating their asses off in the mean time, once the cement is out of their legs after the first couple games.

[Stanley]

good lord if anyone needs to sit on the taxi squad its Looch ffs