[PGT] Flames jobbed by officiating. Lose 3-1 to the Sharks.

[Joborule]

The amount of chances that Bennett get is what makes him frustrating. He has so much potential since he gets himself opportunities to score, but never does anything with it. Generating chances but not scoring, is the same as not generating chances in the 'basic' stat sheet.

If Bennett is gonna have a future here, he HAS to start turning those chances into converted results. Bennett need to start racking up the points, otherwise he's in full-on bust territory. He wasn't drafted as the Flames highest ever draft pick to be a 4th line grinder.

[PeteMoss]

This is the best Bennett's played since he's been here. Seems like an odd time to be having a go at him.

[dustygoon]

Originally Posted by transplant99

OK then.....Bennetts great cause......fancy stats.

Forget about actual production for over 3 years now.....he is generating chances and has only been "unlucky" to not get more.

Again, at some point that just doesn't add up and the narrative simply is not what people suggest.

Does he have value as a player? Of course he does, but it is not unfair to suggest he needs to be better....regardless of any made up/arbitrary stats. He has sucked way more often than he has been good the last 2+ years, even acknowledging his all around game has been much better this 17 game segment thus far.

He will be an RFA with arb. rights at seasons end....he should surely get a raise if he is all that good right?

Do you think that happens?

I think you both can be right. Bennett goes to the net. He gets quality shots off, but watching Bennett shoot the puck vs a confident scorer like Monahan, Mackinnon, or Cammalleri....there is not a lot of zip nor is he picking corners.

Next stat needing measurement? Shot location and shot speed. I see him shoot into the chest, or flip it at the net, or miss the net entirely. He didn't exactly step into his shot on the penalty shot attempt last night. I'm being subjective, but you can see it.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Samonadreau

This would be my #1

1. Eye test. Live Scouting.

Of course live scouting. But first, you need to identify the player. So how? Pretty much using some sort of criteria like Bingo lists above, I would expect.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Joborule

The amount of chances that Bennett get is what makes him frustrating. He has so much potential since he gets himself opportunities to score, but never does anything with it. Generating chances but not scoring, is the same as not generating chances in the 'basic' stat sheet.

If Bennett is gonna have a future here, he HAS to start turning those chances into converted results. Bennett need to start racking up the points, otherwise he's in full-on bust territory. He wasn't drafted as the Flames highest ever draft pick to be a 4th line grinder.

This isn't true.
Of course Bennett has a future here. He is a valuable roster player.
He just is what he is, a strong bottom 6 player. To keep expecting more is becoming a pipe dream, unfortunately.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Table 5

There are definitely still enough aspects to Bennetts game that make him intriguing to an outsider, but at this stage he's firmly on the "Projects" list for any GM. He's become a Lazar or Baertschi or Shinkaruk. You'll get a 2nd round pick at best, or another guy off that list.

I'm not saying trade him.

I'm saying he's exactly the type of player I'd be looking at adding ... therefore don't deal him.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Samonadreau

This would be my #1

1. Eye test. Live Scouting.

You don't think these guys put together lists from stats and before deciding who to scout?

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Your entire argument that he is more valuable than i believe are based on fancy stats...no?


I guess discussing that is off the table though and dismissed because, along with many, i simply dont put anywhere near as much importance on them as you do.

OK then.

If you don't think in your face sarcasm isn't pissy I can't help you.

Bennett has good underlying stats, I'm sorry that annoys you. The underlying stats match the eye test as well, they're not made up. The guy plays with energy, and is creating chances.

I wish he'd convert more and he may never convert more but I just don't see an argument where a guy creating doesn't have value to a team and his linemates.

[GranteedEV]

James Neal is also on pace for 18 points. And he's had more icetime with Gaudreau AND Tkachuk. Maybe the Flames' depth scoring issues are still systemic as they were last year. Of course the fact that PP2 is still scoreless might be an issue on that front and you can't exactly pin that on Bennett when he's played there less than the likes of Backlund, Ryan, Neal, Hanifin.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

This isn't true.
Of course Bennett has a future here. He is a valuable roster player.
He just is what he is, a strong bottom 6 player. To keep expecting more is becoming a pipe dream, unfortunately.

If he's willing to get paid 4th liner salary and stay, rather than ask to be traded elsewhere to try to rejuvenate his career - then sure.

[jammies]

Burke's claim is that they drafted Bennett 4th overall with the expectation that he would be a bottom 6 player? Why lie if you're not going to make it even remotely plausible?

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Joborule

If he's willing to get paid 4th liner salary and stay, rather than ask to be traded elsewhere to try to rejuvenate his career - then sure.

He's their best third liner now, so why should he take a fourth line salary to stay?

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by Bingo

You don't think these guys put together lists from stats and before deciding who to scout?

Absolutely. Just think the eye test is getting overlooked. And thats coming from someone who pays attention to the fancy stats of a general depiction of how the ice is being tilted.

There should be a heavier weighting on actual results and the eye test. Sure you can find a diamond in the rough or a player who is about to break out, but more often then not its a player its a project that never has a break through - again talking about actual results.

I remember watching Jamie Benn in his rookie season. He had a pretty good rookie season on paper but you could just tell he was going to be a star. Also a team like Tampa is able to find all these star players outside the top 15 and its sure looking at Stats but also having an eye for picking out the players that have the game to excel in the NHL.

I guess Im just trying to put more weight on the eye test and actual scouting.

Edit: I guess if its purely steps to take it would be #4. but should be wieighted high.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by jammies

Burke's claim is that they drafted Bennett 4th overall with the expectation that he would be a bottom 6 player? Why lie if you're not going to make it even remotely plausible?

Agreed, that's just silly

When did he say that?

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by Bingo

He's their best third liner now, so why should he take a fourth line salary to stay?

3rd liner, 4th liner salary should close in salary range. Just as long as he's not getting paid more than what his point production offers.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by jammies

Burke's claim is that they drafted Bennett 4th overall with the expectation that he would be a bottom 6 player? Why lie if you're not going to make it even remotely plausible?

That is Burke’s shtick. He always knows everything, surprised by nothing. At least publicly.

[Yobbo]

I know many seems down on Bennett, but for me, he brings an extremely important role to this team that others just don't. His physicality, and hard nosed play makes him a guy that we really need. Sure I would like more offence from him, but I'm pretty sure that will eventually come.


Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Joborule

3rd liner, 4th liner salary should close in salary range. Just as long as he's not getting paid more than what his point production offers.

3rd liners are $3M players, generally, unless ELC.
You hope to have value contracts on line 4.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Bingo

If you don't think in your face sarcasm isn't pissy I can't help you.

Bennett has good underlying stats, I'm sorry that annoys you. The underlying stats match the eye test as well, they're not made up. The guy plays with energy, and is creating chances.

I wish he'd convert more and he may never convert more but I just don't see an argument where a guy creating doesn't have value to a team and his linemates.

I agree with everything you’re saying here. Bennett is very useful, as long as his salary is appropriate and he continues to bring the energy. It’s a young mans game when it comes to complementary players like that so my worry is that he has a relatively short career.

On another note, I’d love to retire the “I can’t help you” saying. Probably just a personal gear grinder, but the poster isn’t asking for help. I have always thought it’s kind of a condescending expression. I know I’ve used it myself a few times and generally it’s because I wanted the other person to feel dumb.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Clearly Peters agrees with me or he wouldn't have been out there.

If you need a tying goal you put the six forwards together with the best chance of generating the chances you need to score.

First, that is an appeal to authority. Second, Bennett did not score, and we lost. So it's an appeal to an authority who failed.

Everyone wishes Bennett would score more goals, show more finish, but a guy with jam that hustles on every shift, never gives up on a play and is showing high counts in scoring chances by an independent counting source helps in that way.

The problem is that one of those things is dramatically more valuable than the rest put together. And it is the one thing Bennett is massively failing at. If we are going to succeed, we need Bennett scoring goals. Ignoring his lack of actual production in favour of what-ifs is akin to focusing on how buying a Lotto Max ticket means you could win $55 million on Friday while ignoring the fact that you're most likely starting Saturday empty handed.

His breakaway last night gave up a rebound that Backlund should have finished. That's a good example of a player creating a chance and another player finishing it.

Anecdote =/= Data.