[PGT] Vegas 7 Calgary 3

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

This entire organization is stuck in perpetual mediocrity.

Is it too much to ask to be in a battle for top spot in the division instead of a dogfight for a low playoff seed?

Perpetual mediocrity is pretty much it. We're the Kansas City Chiefs of the NHL. A team that isn't chronically awful, but hasn't done much of anything in decades.

Originally Posted by dino7c

Ferland just isn't that good

He has a good shot and plays with a guy who is an incredible play maker

Anywhere else in the lineup he has 5-10 goals

The problem with Ferland is his fitness. Watch when he goes to the bench - he's usually completely gassed. As a game goes on, as the season goes on, he gets more and more tired, and only skates in bursts.

[Mickey76]

The problem isn’t a game, goalie, coach, or power play. The problem is after a 5 year build we have an 8-10 place team. Our record is about right. We have a shot at the playoffs but that is all. I am not saying blow it up, but I honestly have no idea what you do when you have a rebuild that is mildly successful but not good enough to make you a 1-3 team but rather an 8-10.

[djsFlames]

I think you re-tool on the fly, and flush out the coaching, if they don't catch fire here in the final stretch.

Maybe a couple lateral trades (Bennett for a similar young player trying to put it together for example). Maybe you're able to get a vet coach with a track record. Maybe you unload a bit of salary and make a pitch for Tavares. Perhaps we swap Brodie out for a more defensively responsible player, or just promote from within. Those are the sort of steps to be taken IMO. The current iteration, and combination of player just isn't clicking as a whole, and is entirely too dependent on whether or not 2 or 3 guys are going, when in theory/on paper there are 7 or 8 impact guys in their own right that should be able to supplement each other but just don't, for whatever reason.

There are good players here, but as a group they're not complementing each other well. Sometimes you just need to swap some parts to find a combination of players that amount to the sum of its parts on the ice.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by Mickey76

The problem isn’t a game, goalie, coach, or power play. The problem is after a 5 year build we have an 8-10 place team. Our record is about right. We have a shot at the playoffs but that is all. I am not saying blow it up, but I honestly have no idea what you do when you have a rebuild that is mildly successful but not good enough to make you a 1-3 team but rather an 8-10.

Sucks that with the 3 first round picks Flames had, that only 1 of them has, and is looking to be the only one that pans out. If Flames could've gone 2/3, and get Andre Burakovsky, who knows how much better shape this team would be.

[Galakanokis]

The juices are definitely not flowing with this team. They lack any sort of passion, fire out there. Very robotic like in their approach and that falls squarely on the coaches. The Flames need to play with a chip on their shoulder but they don't, almost like an emotional response has been coached out of them.

Real tough climb back into now with LA improving, Anaheim hitting their stride and even San Jose playing some good hockey and adding quality pieces.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Mickey76

I am not saying blow it up, but I honestly have no idea what you do when you have a rebuild that is mildly successful but not good enough to make you a 1-3 team but rather an 8-10.

Fist-bump the Isles?

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Mickey76

The problem isn’t a game, goalie, coach, or power play. The problem is after a 5 year build we have an 8-10 place team. Our record is about right. We have a shot at the playoffs but that is all. I am not saying blow it up, but I honestly have no idea what you do when you have a rebuild that is mildly successful but not good enough to make you a 1-3 team but rather an 8-10.

You do what the Bruins did that everyone on this board is so envious of.

You keep your core players and you trade everyone else.

That team is in the running for the presidents trophy and they have moved major pieces in the last 5 years.

How? How is this possible?

I feel like i've been posting a detailed blueprint for it since 2012. You Sell assets to acquire draft picks and then use those draft picks to draft your own.

Spooner was the second of 2 2nd round picks Boston made in 2010. Contributing roster player. 252 games of NHL experience. The first pick they made in the 2nd round, Jared Knight, 0 NHL games.

Calgary did not make a draft selection that year until the third round and picked Max Reinhart, in case you were wondering. Grabbed Ferland in the 5th, so that's not bad.

Well, the next year has to be pretty good, right? That's the gaudreau draft. Hard to fathom having a better draft than getting Gaudreau in the 4th round, right? Granlund, Baertschi and Gaudreau, boy, pretty good draft.

Well, the ducks walked away from that draft with John Gibson, William Karlsson (a 2nd rounder), Josh Manson and Rickard Rackell.

Chicago walked out of that draft with Andrew Shaw and Brandon Saad (saad a 2nd rounder).

Tampa walked away with Palat, Kucherov and Namestnikov (Kucherov a 2nd rounder).

"Ok, well, I get it FLash Walken, you're an #######, but I get it."

You can trace every good team in the league right now to the draft, and you can trace most of the bad teams in the league to the draft. It comes down to good drafting and development, sure, but it mostly comes down to blind luck and quantity.

Matt Murray was the 2nd of 2 3rd round picks. Starting goalie on an ELC the year he wins his first cup. If the flames keep moving draft picks for players that get them into 8th or 9th place, this mediocrity will persist in perpetuity.

It is the hallmark of the Calgary Flames. There will be zero success here, like there has been zero success, until ownership decides they like winning more than they like not being terrible.

[Rejean31]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Going to call me a #### too?

The team has barely won a damn thing since he's been around. This guy is an AHL player and he has the audacity to call out the fan base. You are lucky to not be riding a bus around california and battling your own personal demons. Count your blessings, shut up, and show up at the rink for once!

Dude, just shut up, you are embarrassing yourself!!

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Going to call me a #### too?

The team has barely won a damn thing since he's been around. This guy is an AHL player and he has the audacity to call out the fan base. You are lucky to not be riding a bus around california and battling your own personal demons. Count your blessings, shut up, and show up at the rink for once!

Bad take.

Firstly, I read Stajan's comments as a compliment to the traveling fans who were, by all accounts, very loud in Vegas. Not as disparaging the Dome crowd.

Secondly, even if he did take a shot at the home fans, he's not wrong. It's a library in there unless its playoffs. Personally, I think a big reason is Harvey has been absolute horse#### for the past 2 or 3 seasons in using the drum, and timing of leading chants. But still, Flames fans are painfully quiet.

Lastly, if Stajan was an AHLer, he'd be in the AHL. All the farm team guys were given chances and those who were deserving stayed. None of them outpaced Stajan.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by Table 5

The season is clearly starting to slip away. Both coaching and management have been too slow, or unwilling, to adapt to the realities in front of them, and it's starting to cost us when it really counts.

If there's a silver lining, at least we're one day closer to an off-season when there are some solid coaching candidates to choose from. Or at least one would hope.

We had solid candidates last time and look what we ended up with.

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

It is the hallmark of the Calgary Flames. There will be zero success here, like there has been zero success, until ownership decides they like winning more than they like not being terrible.

Management & ownership have made it quite clear that all they care about is making the playoffs at all costs so they can generate that sweet, sweet playoff revenue. They know the regular season will sell out regardless because there's nothing else in this city to take away from the Flames.

I'm sure if you asked the guys at the top whether they'd prefer to suck hard for a few seasons to build a championship team or sneak in as a wildcard for 10 years, they'd be perfectly fine with the latter because it makes them more money.

[CsInMyBlood]

Matt Stajan can seriously F off.

The guy has been a HUGE disappointment over his entire Flames career and has been paid $31.875M by the Flames to be so underwhelming.

Shut your damn mouth and get off the ice. Can't wait to watch a Flames team without him taking up a roster spot.

[Travis Munroe]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

You do what the Bruins did that everyone on this board is so envious of.

You keep your core players and you trade everyone else.

That team is in the running for the presidents trophy and they have moved major pieces in the last 5 years.

How? How is this possible?

I feel like i've been posting a detailed blueprint for it since 2012. You Sell assets to acquire draft picks and then use those draft picks to draft your own.

Spooner was the second of 2 2nd round picks Boston made in 2010. Contributing roster player. 252 games of NHL experience. The first pick they made in the 2nd round, Jared Knight, 0 NHL games.

Calgary did not make a draft selection that year until the third round and picked Max Reinhart, in case you were wondering. Grabbed Ferland in the 5th, so that's not bad.

Well, the next year has to be pretty good, right? That's the gaudreau draft. Hard to fathom having a better draft than getting Gaudreau in the 4th round, right? Granlund, Baertschi and Gaudreau, boy, pretty good draft.

Well, the ducks walked away from that draft with John Gibson, William Karlsson (a 2nd rounder), Josh Manson and Rickard Rackell.

Chicago walked out of that draft with Andrew Shaw and Brandon Saad (saad a 2nd rounder).

Tampa walked away with Palat, Kucherov and Namestnikov (Kucherov a 2nd rounder).

"Ok, well, I get it FLash Walken, you're an #######, but I get it."

You can trace every good team in the league right now to the draft, and you can trace most of the bad teams in the league to the draft. It comes down to good drafting and development, sure, but it mostly comes down to blind luck and quantity.

Matt Murray was the 2nd of 2 3rd round picks. Starting goalie on an ELC the year he wins his first cup. If the flames keep moving draft picks for players that get them into 8th or 9th place, this mediocrity will persist in perpetuity.

It is the hallmark of the Calgary Flames. There will be zero success here, like there has been zero success, until ownership decides they like winning more than they like not being terrible.

I like Backlunds game but feel he could have fetched a pretty good pick at the deadline. I would have traded him.
If we lose a couple more before the deadline, I would approach Smith and ask if he wants to go to a contender for once in his life and get a solid pick from him.
Frolik would also fetch a good pick.

I don't think you can let Hamonic, Brodie, Bennett go as they will bounce back. Much of the board was shooting Dougie out of town... patience is key when you are looking forward to next year.

If you could get anything for Kulak or Stone, I send them away and open the doors to the cupboard in the AHL.

I would love to see Ferland in his natural role on the 3rd line with Bennet and Hathaway.
Top line of Tkachuk, Johny and Mony
Janko on line 2
4th line of the guys we couldnt give away for free at the deadline.

Off season, sign the new best goalie and a new coach with experience.

I am sure I will take flack for the Smith comment but he is only getting older and will become more injury prone. He is the only reason we are in a playoff hunt right now but I fear that may not last with the workload he has been given over the years.

[Stanley]

Meh, I'm not even mad at Stajan's comments...good or bad home record the cheer/noise level at the Dome on most nights is pretty lame. It's a graveyard until someone scores a goal.

Every time I've invited my family from out East (Ontario/Quebec) to a game they're like "geez, it's pretty boring here what's up with that?"

I can't speak for any big exciting american rinks but I remember being at the Bell Centre and it was night and day comparison.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Stanley

Meh, I'm not even mad at Stajan's comments...good or bad home record the cheer/noise level at the Dome on most nights is pretty lame. It's a graveyard until someone scores a goal.

Every time I've invited my family from out East (Ontario/Quebec) to a game they're like "geez, it's pretty boring here what's up with that?"

I can't speak for any big exciting american rinks but I remember being at the Bell Centre and it was night and day comparison.

Oh yeah, I bet the Bell Center is a hoot this season..

Results and performance factor in, especially north of the border. I don't know what's up with fanbases like Nashville's but props to them for being raucous at the best and worst of times. One of the few that are actually like that.

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

You can trace every good team in the league right now to the draft, and you can trace most of the bad teams in the league to the draft. It comes down to good drafting and development, sure, but it mostly comes down to blind luck and quantity.

Matt Murray was the 2nd of 2 3rd round picks. Starting goalie on an ELC the year he wins his first cup. If the flames keep moving draft picks for players that get them into 8th or 9th place, this mediocrity will persist in perpetuity.

It is the hallmark of the Calgary Flames. There will be zero success here, like there has been zero success, until ownership decides they like winning more than they like not being terrible.

Excellent post. Mortgaging the future to try and improve in the short term is almost always a recipie for disaster. That being said, there is no substitute for quality scouting & drafting. Case in point the team north of us, despite years of top picks and winning the McDavid lottery, they are still dreadful. Then again you could look at a team like Pittsburgh which is based around Crosby and Malkin, a #1 and a #2 draft pick.

These past 13 seasons have been so frustrating for us. Just one playoff series win against an injured Canucks team. That's literally it. Despite a major rebuild, we don't seem to be that much farther ahead than we were before it. Our playoff hopes this year are quickly fading, and we basically don't have any draft picks in this upcoming draft. Where are the reasons for optimism? I can't seem to find any...

[mikephoen]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Oh yeah, I bet the Bell Center is a hoot this season..

Results and performance factor in, especially north of the border. I don't know what's up with fanbases like Nashville's but props to them for being raucous at the best and worst of times. One of the few that are actually like that.

Thanked for the Bell Center comment, but I think the jury is still out on Nashville. When was the last time they even had bad times, let alone worst times. People thought Colorado had some of the best fans in the league, until they stopped winning. Let's see what happens in Nashville if they miss the playoffs for 4 or 5 years in a row.

Similarly, the Dome is rocking in playoffs and even in the regular season when the team is winning and exciting. Currently the team is losing, usually within the first few minutes, and doesn't play exciting. What are people supposed to be cheering for, the ice cleaning crew?

[I_H8_Crawford]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

Excellent post. Mortgaging the future to try and improve in the short term is almost always a recipie for disaster. That being said, there is no substitute for quality scouting & drafting. Case in point the team north of us, despite years of top picks and winning the McDavid lottery, they are still dreadful. Then again you could look at a team like Pittsburgh which is based around Crosby and Malkin, a #1 and a #2 draft pick.

These past 13 seasons have been so frustrating for us. Just one playoff series win against an injured Canucks team. That's literally it. Despite a major rebuild, we don't seem to be that much farther ahead than we were before it. Our playoff hopes this year are quickly fading, and we basically don't have any draft picks in this upcoming draft. Where are the reasons for optimism? I can't seem to find any...

Optimism for me is hopefully we get a coach who has a clue in the game management department.

I like GG, seems like a good guy, and I think his overall hockey IQ/systems design is good - just he's terrible as a head coach and getting the "feel" of a game.

He almost runs the Flames like video game hockey - you roll 4 lines no matter what. Don't bother changing up the lines because the players are robots and won't have extra good/extra bad days.

I wouldn't mind GG as an assistant or associate behind a better bench managing coach. I.E. I think he would have worked well with Hartley, provided Hartley would have been cool with GGs systems.... Now, I am not saying I want Hartley back or anything, just that GG is more of a complimentary coach, and not HC material.

[DiracSpike]

How can people claim ownership doesn't care about winning when they spend to the cap every year, regardless of how punitive the exchange rate is? Or would you rather have someone like Melnyk running the team. Jeeze I get people are angry about the whole arena saga but let's keep our complaints about ownership in the realm of reality.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

30-22-9 or 30-31 if you want to peel back the onion, is just a joke for a team with the top end talent this Flames group has at all positions. Make no mistake, management, coaching and players saw this group as a 100 point team and this is why they went all in trading draft picks and mortgaging the future - which all but ensures more organizational depth problems 3-4 years down the road.

Barring an immediate and substantial turn-around, if missing the playoffs after all that has been said and done is not a disaster, what is?

- Oilers get Brady Tkachuk or Rasmus Dahlin + Canucks get the other
- Islanders get a top 3 pick via lottery (our pick)
- Glen Gulutzan signs an extension
- Sam Bennett and TJ Brodie traded and proceed to get back to playing to their potential elsewhere, while their returns are throwaway pieces

Just missing the playoffs and regrouping is perfecrly digestable if none of the above happens.