Electric vehicle war, is gas soon to be toast?

[Fuzz]

^NEMA 14/50. NEMO is a fish.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Yes, and I couldn't imagine having an EV without it. Being able to charge overnight, and have it fully charged in the morning, is just so convenient. Had to use a public charger on the weekend in Canmore, for the first time, and it was really annoying - like having to go to a gas station, but it taking a lot longer. I hope I don't have to do that too often.

As for the make, mine came with the vehicle, so I have nothing to add there. But you absolutely want one, if you can. And also, you definitely want a NEMO 14/50 (240 amp) plug, for higher speed charging, if possible.

Yeah, what I meant was if anyone has a smart charger.
We're buying an EV, and we'll have the 120/240 charger that comes with it, and the 14-50 plug in the garage to run off of. I was just curious if anyone had a wall mounted smart charger, and if they thought it was worth it, and what brads to go with and or avoid.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

Yeah, what I meant was if anyone has a smart charger.
We're buying an EV, and we'll have the 120/240 charger that comes with it, and the 14-50 plug in the garage to run off of. I was just curious if anyone had a wall mounted smart charger, and if they thought it was worth it, and what brads to go with and or avoid.

What constitutes a smart charger? Aren't they all smart? Can control with the phone app, set timer, etc

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

What constitutes a smart charger? Aren't they all smart? Can control with the phone app, set timer, etc

Okay what I will have:
Car portable charger with 240V/30A rating with plug in garage, and the functions that come as part of the car (timed charging, etc)

What I'm wondering about is recommendations on one of the following:

Smart charger:
App controlable
240V/48A charging
Some functionality that is similar to what the car has (Timed charging etc)
Some features the car may not have (trending electricity cost)

Dumb charger:
Just delivers 240V/48A
Main advantage is just the faster charge time vs the OEM charger that comes with the car (30A)

So what I'm really asking is are there any 48A fixed chargers anyone could recommend, or suggest I stay away from.
I'm not sure I want/need the smart charger, so a dumb one may be just fine.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by dino7c

no, I find it wasteful how cars are basically disposable these days...its not an EV thing to be fair there just seems to be more hypocrites with EVs. Anecdotal from my own personal experiences.

I think EV technology is great, people should keep their vehicles longer and they should be built to last longer IMO

WTF are you talking about? Modern cars are awesome. My car is 11 years old and looks and drives like new. Like, who would be tossing a 10-year-old car? That just doesn't happen. Every single modern car is more reliable and longer lasting than virtually every single older car. They've gotten better and better with time. And they hold their value better, too, particularly on the used market in 2021/22/23. Like, there's no way you could support that thing you just completely made up because it's a total fabrication.

Go on Kijiji right now and look at cars from 2013. I just typed in Honda Civic 2013 and the first hit was one for $18,800 and that's a private sale. Typed in 2013 F-150 and first hit was $19,900 (private sale). One at Maclin for $23,990. I mean, I could do this all day. Vehicles 10 years old have a ton of value and literally nobody is treating them as "disposable". Oh, and first hit for 2013 Tesla came back as a Model S listed at $43,888. Yeah, so disposable lol.

For real, I think you should edit your post to clear out the nonsense because it's absolutely preposterous.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Sliver

WTF are you talking about? Modern cars are awesome. My car is 11 years old and looks and drives like new. Like, who would be tossing a 10-year-old car? That just doesn't happen. Every single modern car is more reliable and longer lasting than virtually every single older car. They've gotten better and better with time. And they hold their value better, too, particularly on the used market in 2021/22/23. Like, there's no way you could support that thing you just completely made up because it's a total fabrication.

Go on Kijiji right now and look at cars from 2013. I just typed in Honda Civic 2013 and the first hit was one for $18,800 and that's a private sale. Typed in 2013 F-150 and first hit was $19,900 (private sale). One at Maclin for $23,990. I mean, I could do this all day. Vehicles 10 years old have a ton of value and literally nobody is treating them as "disposable". Oh, and first hit for 2013 Tesla came back as a Model S listed at $43,888. Yeah, so disposable lol.

For real, I think you should edit your post to clear out the nonsense because it's absolutely preposterous.

Prices are high because of covid and supply chain issues, I never said they had no value. And lol at the bolded point you obviously have never worked on vehicles.

People will want the latest and greatest when it comes to EVs...and ICE Truck hasn't changed much in 10 years, think of where EVs will be in 10 years from now. When EVs are readily available you will see a massive shift, they will be like the new iphone IMO.

[Wormius]

But nobody is just throwing away their car like some kind of psychopath. Somebody will buy it or it'll get traded in and someone else will get some use from it. It's a little disingenuous to suggest a car is going into the trash heap after the owner tires of it.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Wormius

But nobody is just throwing away their car like some kind of psychopath. Somebody will buy it or it'll get traded in and someone else will get some use from it. It's a little disingenuous to suggest a car is going into the trash heap after the owner tires of it.

Yeah right now...I don't think its sustainable. I doubt many cars sold today are on the road in 12 years.

[zamler]

Average age of a vehicle in the United States is 12.2 years.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by zamler

Average age of a vehicle in the United States is 12.2 years.

Probably much higher in most other 1st world countries where there is no patriotic obligation to buy American cars.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Probably much higher in most other 1st world countries where there is no patriotic obligation to buy American cars.

I doubt that moves the needle much, and American brands are a lot more reliable than in the past.

I'm not even sure if there is any real truth to that anyway.

https://www.factorywarrantylist.com/...y-country.html

Toyota is the top selling brand in the US. Ford is top selling in Canada. France, Japan, South Korea and Germany all seem more loyal to their country's cars than the US.

[powderjunkie]

Looks like you're generally right, and vehicle age is inversely related to affluence:

https://www.aut.fi/en/statistics/int...rt_direction=0

EU average 11.8


And a CAD vs US comparison - though there may be differences in methodology

11.8 years

Average age of U.S. cars and light trucks on the road in 2019.

IHS Markit

#

9.71 years

Average age of Canadian cars and light trucks on the road in 2017 (most recent data).

AIA Outlook Study 2018

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

Okay what I will have:
Car portable charger with 240V/30A rating with plug in garage, and the functions that come as part of the car (timed charging, etc)

What I'm wondering about is recommendations on one of the following:

Smart charger:
App controlable
240V/48A charging
Some functionality that is similar to what the car has (Timed charging etc)
Some features the car may not have (trending electricity cost)

Dumb charger:
Just delivers 240V/48A
Main advantage is just the faster charge time vs the OEM charger that comes with the car (30A)

So what I'm really asking is are there any 48A fixed chargers anyone could recommend, or suggest I stay away from.
I'm not sure I want/need the smart charger, so a dumb one may be just fine.

I have a Juice box. Works great, and you can adjust how many amps you want to pull and set timers, etc

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Yeah right now...I don't think its sustainable. I doubt many cars sold today are on the road in 12 years.

For ICE vehicles sold new now and going forward, I think it'll be okay. Parts are available, and there are already diagnostic tools for sale that can work with the new CAN-FD protocol. I can hook up my laptop or a tablet to my cars (15 and 11 years old) and do pretty much anything the dealer can do. I can get parts from a variety of sources for a wide range of prices, part grades, etc.

But when things transition to full EV, I think cars will become more like consumer electronics than ever before. Not having Right to Repair is going to be a massive hinderance to keeping these new cars on the road past their manufacturer support periods.

[Superflyer]

Hertz increased its fleet of electric vehicles and increases profits

The revenue figure is in part explained by corporate demand for rentals provided by Hertz rising to 70% of pre-pandemic levels. But another key contributor was Hertz’ discovery that EVs are between 50-60% cheaper to maintain than gasoline-powered cars.

“We focused on operational excellence and fleet optimization to produce financial results that facilitated investment in our strategic priorities, like electrification, while enhancing returns to our shareholders and being in the service of our customers,” Scherr said in the earnings call.

There are fewer moving parts on EV vehicles than gas-burning cars, which means there are fewer failure points on components that can make for costly replacements.

Additionally, the less time a vehicle is receiving repairs at the auto shop means it’s spending more time on the road and thus has more opportunities to make money as a rental.

[para transit fellow]

FortisAlberta’s EV Smart Charging Pilot will provide insight into where and when residential EV charging is drawing large amounts of power from the grid, as well as how to best respond to increased demand on the distribution system as we look to optimize the grid and minimize distribution costs for all customers.

https://fortisalberta.com/electric-v...charging-pilot

[Lubicon]

Originally Posted by Superflyer

Hertz increased its fleet of electric vehicles and increases profits

Will be interesting to see what rental companies do with EV's in terms of the policy they now have of returning a vehicle with a full tank of fuel. A charging fee to top it up when you return?

[Superflyer]

Originally Posted by Lubicon

Will be interesting to see what rental companies do with EV's in terms of the policy they now have of returning a vehicle with a full tank of fuel. A charging fee to top it up when you return?

Hard to say as of right now but I have seen people saying they are not caring as they just plug them in once you return it and it is fully charged by the time the next person is ready to go.
Now later on if they can make a buck by charging people for this I can see that policy changing.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Prices are high because of covid and supply chain issues, I never said they had no value. And lol at the bolded point you obviously have never worked on vehicles.

Well if they have value literally nobody is going to treat them as "disposable," which is the exact word you used and you were wrong. Cars are not disposable and there isn't a person on the planet who treats them as such after only 10 years.

It's also absolutely irrelevant whether I've worked on cars or not (FWIW I have). That's just more made-up nonsense that has nothing to do with anything. Most people don't work on their own cars and even if they do there are still going to be a ton of DIY stuff people will tackle with an EV.

Originally Posted by dino7c

People will want the latest and greatest when it comes to EVs...and ICE Truck hasn't changed much in 10 years, think of where EVs will be in 10 years from now. When EVs are readily available you will see a massive shift, they will be like the new iphone IMO.

Well, if it's the case EVs are good for the planet and if it's better if more people are driving them than ICEs, then, yes, wealthier people will likely upgrade, but then they'll sell their old EV to somebody who prefers buying used and/or can't afford to buy new. It won't be "disposed" haha.

Just like people have done with cars for the last 100 years. There's nothing I've seen, read or heard that would suggest any different.

There's a group of people who always want the latest and greatest anything. Look at a C7 Corvette versus a C8. There's a big difference between the two and sure a lot of people will like the C7 more, but of course there are going to be people who want the new mid-engine Corvette with the latest tech. Same with the new ___insert any model of any make here___. So yeah, people will trade up as the tech changes. Uh-huh. That's obvious and nothing new whatsoever lol.

Originally Posted by dino7c

Yeah right now...I don't think its sustainable. I doubt many cars sold today are on the road in 12 years.

More nonsense backed by nothing other than your worthless hunch. Twelve years is nothing. If there is a market to fix EVs there will be an industry to fix them. You're not going to see piles of EVs a dozen years old in piles in a scrapyard while there are a bunch of '97 Corollas rolling around. That's ridiculous.

[TorqueDog]

I mean, if the only option you want is the dealership support network, then yeah, great outcome I guess. It's not just about DIY, independent shops will also be restricted from performing repairs.

Is this specific to EVs? Not at all (John Deere's already dipped their toe in with farm equipment), but I can see the problem getting worse with the proliferation of EVs.

Anyone who has watched Louis Rossman on YouTube talk about Right to Repair understands the problem, and there is a very clear parallel between companies like Apple locking people out of getting replacement components or tying replacement components to device serial numbers, and the direction the automotive industry is going.

The cost of replacing a Model 3 battery, for example, is ~$16k USD and it must be purchased from Tesla. Search the web looking for replacement Tesla batteries and you can get plenty of used cells from wrecked Teslas, but you'll not find a brand new replacement anywhere... you have to go to Tesla for that. That hypothetical 1997 Corolla you mentioned could be virtually rebuilt using third-party components, down to the ECU itself.

Planned obsolescence and e-waste has been a growing problem for consumer electronics for a while, and as cars more closely resemble consumer electronics in their manufacturing, expect that to become an issue for the automotive industry too.

Now, I don't think the majority of people can afford to turn-over their cars the way they turn-over phones. Admittedly, I used to flip cars every 3-4 years, but I can't justify it anymore. But the cost to keep cars going if battery costs don't come WAY down and parts are not made available is going to put a lot of cars in the scrapyard well before their time.