Jr. Prospects Ready to Turn Pro?

[Canada 02]

In a training camp podcast, Darryl talked about the difference between Baldwin and Pelech.

He said he wanted Pelech to turn pro because he had already played 4 years of junior, and he doesn't like prospects to play 5 years.

Baldwin on the otherhand had only played 3 years of junior, so he was more open to the idea of him going back to junior. He said some prospects can get by with 3 years, but others NEED 4. It didn't work out that way for Baldwin as he has obviously turned pro, but it does provide some insight into how Sutter slots his prospects in terms of their development time table.

JD Watt was an anomaly, now playing his 5th year of junior, but Sutter rationalized that move because Watt was not in pro condition.

So here is a list of Flames junior prospects, and the number of years they will have been in the CHL after this season.

5 years: Watt*

4 years: Armstrong*, Didiomete, Irving*, Carpentier

3 years: Renaud, Negrin*, Aulie

2 years: Puustinen

*prospects with contracts

Going off Sutter's timetable, assuming they are all in pro condition next training camp, there will be 5 junior prospects turning pro next fall (assuming they all have pro contracts by then), and possibly a 6th, since Sutter is so high on John Negrin.

Puustinen is a wild card since he likely played some years in whatever is the Finnish junior equivalent.

Will be interesting to see where Irving fits in with all the goalies in the system. Likely McE is the backup to Miikka next year, Krahn out of the picture?, Keetley, Lalande and Irving fighting for 2 spots in QC?

This doesn't factor in College players or Euros either. Spratt is a Sr., Per Jonsson was invited to camp last summer, and we know Sutter is v high on Backlund

[Drunk Skunk]

Good timing for this thread, as I was wondering something similar, although I was wondering who would be ready at the end of this current season that could join QC for the late stretch/playoff run.

[Canada 02]

Originally Posted by Drunk Skunk

Good timing for this thread, as I was wondering something similar, although I was wondering who would be ready at the end of this current season that could join QC for the late stretch/playoff run.

hard to say since all the junior teams that Flames prospects play for are in playoff positions. Who know how far any of them will advance. Last year, Everett was one of the favourites, but got knocked out early, and I believe Irving joined Omaha for the playoffs, but obviously didn't play

[Drunk Skunk]

I see that the Petes are fourth in their division. How do the OHL playoffs work? Top two in each division? Also, how long is the season? I wouldn't mind seeing Armstrong here.

[Canada 02]

OHL playoff format

http://ontariohockeyleague.com/playoffs/

OHL playoffs get under way around the end of March; likely the same for the rest of the CHL

Memorial Cup is the end of May

[Reggie Dunlop]

Good post Canada02.

I guess the preface to your question could be who gets the yank over the summer.

A few observations:

Aki Seitsonsen is still not getting a sniff at a regular gig at the AHL level after two seasons in the E.

Jimmy Spratt is into his third season at the college level and is battlng a freshman for starter status.

It's all about progression (of which stats are a part, but not the whole picture).

As for the 2006s...

Sutter had some good things to say about Puustinen in the World Juniors. I'd think he's still on the radar.

Carpentier has been hot as of late -- though he does seem somewhat streaky

And I'd give DiDidiomete a shot too. Guys like him may seemingly be a dime a dozen, but the one that turns out is usually gold.

Dunno much about where the college kids and the Euro sit in the overall scheme.

[Canada 02]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

Good post Canada02.

I guess the preface to your question could be who gets the yank over the summer.

Sutter has stated that VDG, Maki, Prust, Ramholt and Pardy are all call up players. Whether any of them graduates from being minor league call-ups to part/full time NHLers remains to be seen.

Which new prospect turns pro next year will partly be affected by which existing prospect graduates to the NHL next season. Sutter would like to see 2 prospects graduate each season to the NHL.

If Prust and/or Maki is one of them, perhaps that opens up a spot for one of Watt or Didiomete to play that energy, agitator role.

If its Ramholt or Pardy, then maybe that gives Negrin or Per Jonsson a shot on the QC blueline.

Armstrong if VDG develops into an NHLer

Given the investment of a first round pick on Irving, he would be certain to have the inside track over Lalande.

It wouldn't be a huge surprise if a number of 3+ year AHLers, who don't get a shot, or don't deserve a shot turn to Europe; Seitsonen and Maki, due to their origin, would be the easy examples of ones who may go that route.

[Canada 02]

VDG, Prust, Pardy, Couture, Cunning, Donally, Maki, Kolanos and Stevenson are all RFAs. I could see any of the last 6 names looking for work in another organisation because they want to or the Flames don't want them. in other words, there is plenty of room for new blood

[Canada 02]

In reference to Baldwin (and Pelech as well I suppose), Sutter said that if they aren't playing at least every other game, they are better off playing junior. Therefore, the QC Flames need certain slots open (d-man, energy player, top 6 forward, goalie etc) before new prospects can fill those slots. Not as simple as simply having a roster spot available

[Drunk Skunk]

Originally Posted by Canada 02

In reference to Baldwin (and Pelech as well I suppose), Sutter said that if they aren't playing at least every other game, they are better off playing junior. Therefore, the QC Flames need certain slots open (d-man, energy player, top 6 forward, goalie etc) before new prospects can fill those slots. Not as simple as simply having a roster spot available

They play maybe 5 minutes a game. QC is basically playing with four defensemen.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Players who are either RFA or UFA come summer:

McElhinney
Van der Gulik
Prust
Krahn
Nystrom
Taratukhin
Pardy
Couture
Cunning
Donally
Maki
Stevenson

From www.nhlscap.com

[Sylvanfan]

McElhinney is RFA with 28 or more GP in 2007-08 (min. 30 minutes each game) - else is UFA, VI

This is a tag from the bottom of the nhlscap page on the Flames. I don't know the specifics if it has to be NHL games, or total professional games played. I suspect it is total games played in professional hockey and that signing Joseph had the alterior motive of putting him in QC to get in enough game action to meet that criteria. Although him playing regularly should benefit him in his development as well. Not that he would garner a lot of interest as a UFA, but likely more than he will as a restricted guy.

[Red Slinger]

Has anyone seen Watt play lately?

I've heard that he really hasn't been progressing much and isn't playing the role (Grinder/Energy/Fighter) that many expected.

Is his time up in the Flames org?

[Reggie Dunlop]

Watt update on nhl.com

Is his time up in the Flames org?

No.

[Red Slinger]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

Watt update on nhl.com

Unfortunately, it doesn't really say much about Watt, so...

Originally Posted by Red Slinger

Has anyone seen Watt play lately?

[Reggie Dunlop]

Originally Posted by Red Slinger

Unfortunately, it doesn't really say much about Watt, so...

Looks like he's contributing to the Pats success.

[Canada 02]

Originally Posted by Red Slinger

Is his time up in the Flames org?

unlike some draftees and prospects who never recieved a contract, Watt has a 3 year entry level deal that cost the Flames a 5 figure signing bonus. You don't need to see Watt play to know that the Flames would not give up on a signed prospect who has never had a chance to prove himself as a pro yet.

[jamesteterenko]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

McElhinney is RFA with 28 or more GP in 2007-08 (min. 30 minutes each game) - else is UFA, VI

This is a tag from the bottom of the nhlscap page on the Flames. I don't know the specifics if it has to be NHL games, or total professional games played. I suspect it is total games played in professional hockey and that signing Joseph had the alterior motive of putting him in QC to get in enough game action to meet that criteria. Although him playing regularly should benefit him in his development as well. Not that he would garner a lot of interest as a UFA, but likely more than he will as a restricted guy.

That is NHL games played. So, he will be a UFA unless something really bad happens.

[Red Slinger]

Originally Posted by Canada 02

unlike some draftees and prospects who never recieved a contract, Watt has a 3 year entry level deal that cost the Flames a 5 figure signing bonus. You don't need to see Watt play to know that the Flames would not give up on a signed prospect who has never had a chance to prove himself as a pro yet.

From what I can tell the same applies to the following:

Brad Cole
John Negrin
John Armstrong
Dan Ryder
Kevin Lalande
Brett Sutter
Brett Palin

They, as well as Watt, are on 2 way contracts and as such the NHL salary is moot. Most also have 5 figure signing bonuses from what I can tell. Regardless of his contract status I'm not sure that Watt will be in the Flames organization strictly based on what I've heard from those that have seen him play. If he's taking a spot in the organization that could be used better on another player than that's what will happen. I'm not suggesting that's necessarily the case but rather I'm saying that it isn't as cut and dried and it may seem.

My guess is that the Flames will give Watt at least 1 season in the AHL, but more likely 2, to see what he can do playing against grown men. What Watt does there will likely determine his fate.

[Canada 02]

I'm not even suggesting he get an AHL spot. He could end up in Vegas ECHL like Seitsonen, Cracknell and Lalande.

Just saying that the Flames will not give up on a signed prospect