The Tesla Thread

[Enoch Root]

And they're doing this just when all the other manufacturers are finally getting their EVs out to market.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

They are getting by on their ability to manufacture higher volumes of EV's over the competition but once that gap narrows I don't see the point in buying a Tesla.

Maybe you've mentioned it before, what do you drive?

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

And they're doing this just when all the other manufacturers are finally getting their EVs out to market.

Which auto makers currently don't have EVs?

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by zamler

Maybe you've mentioned it before, what do you drive?

Which auto makers currently don't have EVs?

A Model 3 Performance. It will be my last Tesla though.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

A Model 3 Performance. It will be my last Tesla though.

Will your next car be an EV?

[bossy22]

We are the same. Model S owners for almost 7 years. We are going to replace it with another EV, but not a Tesla.

[I_H8_Crawford]

My wife was adamant that we get a 7 seater.

I cannot wait for the MB EQS SUV

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by zamler

Which auto makers currently don't have EVs?

Most automakers are just getting their first EVs to market. Or they have one, but not a full lineup yet. That is going to change drastically in the next 12 months.

GM and Ford are just entering the market. Nobody really has a good SUV EV out yet, but Mercedes is coming.

Tesla has had almost the entire EV market for a decade, that is going to change drastically, going forward. This isn't a slight on Tesla, it is simply the reality.

You seem very emotionally attached to Tesla - I am genuinely curious as to why.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by I_H8_Crawford

My wife was adamant that we get a 7 seater.

I cannot wait for the MB EQS SUV

Very curious about it as well.

The Rivian is nice, but pretty spartan for the price (and still no idea when you can actually get one). I think the market is begging for a full size SUV EV so I suspect the Mercedes will be very well received

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Most automakers are just getting their first EVs to market. Or they have one, but not a full lineup yet. That is going to change drastically in the next 12 months.

GM and Ford are just entering the market. Nobody really has a good SUV EV out yet, but Mercedes is coming.

Tesla has had almost the entire EV market for a decade, that is going to change drastically, going forward. This isn't a slight on Tesla, it is simply the reality.

"The competition is coming" has been the mantra for as long as Tesla has been in business luckily I didn't buy into it both literally and figuratively. Your entire premise assumes Tesla will be frozen in time going forward and every other auto maker will advance in vertical integration, software, economies of scale etc.

You seem very emotionally attached to Tesla - I am genuinely curious as to why.

I'll send you a PM.

[Fuzz]

So just curious for everyone who said Tesla would not be their next EV, what would be the top reasons for that?

[opendoor]

As long as you have to swipe a narrow little area on the dashboard touchscreen to shift between Park, Drive, and Reverse, I doubt I'll be considering a Tesla.

Having climate control and audio shifted from physical controls to a touch screen is bad enough in most new cars, but to have to be swiping back and on a touch screen to perform a quick 3 point turn? No thanks.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by zamler

Will your next car be an EV?

Very likely we will always have at least one EV in the garage from now on. The car isn't terrible as the battery/motor tech is great but the build quality is 80's era Hyundai. Since being part of the community all that is discussed is build quality issues, FSD issues, auto-wipers that don't work, and what feature they are going to remove from the cars next. Like I said before I just don't know what their end game is as they don't run their business like a company that's looking to the future.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

So just curious for everyone who said Tesla would not be their next EV, what would be the top reasons for that?

It's a compromised ownership experience. It has the worst adaptive cruise control of any vehicle I've owned. Stuff that just works on other cars like auto wipers don't work on a Tesla. As a music lover I find the audio interface absolutely disgusting. The suspension isn't refined at all as they still can't get that right. As I said above you have to go back to the 80's for build quality as bad as a new Tesla. My car is still relatively new but has the interior rattles and squeaks of a five year old Subaru. There are some really good things about these vehicles but it's very much a love/hate ownership experience.

[photon]

Tesla's ability to produce far more electric cars is part of their advantage I would think. It's not like other manufacturers are sitting on inventory of unsold Ioniq 5's or Mach-E's, but there's many times more Teslas produced.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by zamler

"The competition is coming" has been the mantra for as long as Tesla has been in business luckily I didn't buy into it both literally and figuratively. Your entire premise assumes Tesla will be frozen in time going forward and every other auto maker will advance in vertical integration, software, economies of scale etc.


I'll send you a PM.

Not at all - you are being pretty rigid here.

Tesla has had an advantage up until now, and their battery tech is still ahead. But they dominated because they were the only show in town for EVs. But the other manufacturers are miles ahead on building cars, and just need to close the gap on battery tech (which they will, because they are now making the commitment to the platform).

I am not suggesting Tesla is going to sit around doing nothing, with their thumbs up their butts, but the bottom line is that they cannot, and will likely never be able to, build cars as well as the Germans, the Japanese, or the Koreans. Once the battery tech gap is closed, or at least shrunk, the fact that Teslas are pretty poorly built will become a much bigger factor.

Two, five, and ten years ago, if you wanted an EV, you bought a Tesla. Now, there are dozens of choices, and in another 12 months, there will be many, many dozens of choices. The math is pretty simple - where Tesla once had 90+% of the EV market, they are going to soon be just one of many choices.

No matter how much someone loves Tesla, that is just a simple, indisputable fact.

[The Yen Man]

For me, the problem with Tesla is it's a tech company making a car. They design their cars for the tech enthusiast rather than for the driver. There's so many little annoyances that seem to be easy solutions but a nightmare on a Tesla. It seems like a lot of their design choices go for the trendy wow factor over practicality.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by photon

Tesla's ability to produce far more electric cars is part of their advantage I would think. It's not like other manufacturers are sitting on inventory of unsold Ioniq 5's or Mach-E's, but there's many times more Teslas produced.

It isn't that big of an advantage.

In 2021, Tesla delivered 936K vehicles, while VW delivered 453,000 EVs. Some analysts predict that VW will pass Tesla in EV sales by 2024. And that is just one manufacturer.

And that's just EVs - the other manufacturers already produce far more vehicles, they just need to switch some of that production to EVs.

Now that Ford has an EV truck, and GM's EV SUV is coming to market (as is Mercedes), they are going to drastically expand the choices people have for buying EVs.

Tesla's 3 model choices are going to get overwhelmed by the vast array of choices we are going to see over the next year or two.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

For me, the problem with Tesla is it's a tech company making a car. They design their cars for the tech enthusiast rather than for the driver. There's so many little annoyances that seem to be easy solutions but a nightmare on a Tesla. It seems like a lot of their design choices go for the trendy wow factor over practicality.

And that is a niche - a very limited niche.

Many (most?) early-adaptor EV enthusiasts fit that niche. But as EV sales expand into greater market acceptance, other factors will go into consumers' choices.

I want an EV (I already have one), but I still want a solid vehicle, and I want all the things that I have always wanted from a vehicle, not just an iPhone that drives me around. And I suspect that is true for most people, other than the Tesla fans (and they already own one).

[Fuzz]

Model 3's and Y's look pretty dull, too. Doesn't help with the poor colour choices and high cost if you don't want white. I think the S is a nice looking vehicle, but the X is also kinda fugly compared to other offerings out there. Tesla is going to be competing against much nicer looking vehicles with more traditional controls(does anyone actually prefer the yolk?).

When people start cross shopping, I don't think the value holds up well for Tesla. The benefit Tesla has is they've been bubbling up their price while increasing profit margins per vehicle, so they have lots of room to move down if their sales soften. Their manufacturing techniques are geared toward simplicity and cost reduction which I think they've done well at(excusing the removal of real buttons, which reduces cost, but sucks for users).

[The Yen Man]

Another thing that's starting to annoy me with EVs is the constant flex on how fast they are. Yes, I get they blow ICE cars out of the water in terms of acceleration. But does a soccer mom or a teenager who just go their license really need that much speed? When do we hit a point where we think the average car is TOO fast?