Easy Car Theft with Antenna Relay Attacks

[pylon]

Originally Posted by Bankai

Use your garage for cars. Stop leaving your junk inside and cars outside.


...If you have a garage for cars...

This I agree with, in theory. But what it doesn't account for my frikking addiction to cars and motorcycles. My summer stuff gets the garage year round.

This summer I'm going to look at installing a couple lifts. It's that or an acreage with a really big quonset/shop. I'm thinking a couple lifts is far more affordable long term.

[BigThief]

Originally Posted by pylon

I get piling on people is the cool thing to do around here.... but.

I get a company car, and why would I use my personal vehicles in the winter when I get a demo from work? So I usually park my personal vehicles in the winter.

Regardless, I pull trailers, camp, do a lot of overlanding, and run a small business on the side that requires a truck in the summer and the odd time in the winter. And or some of the places I end up going, I need a pretty specialized truck to get access. The dealership kinda frowns on me loading a quad on the roof of a Golf R and driving it up sketchy at best logging roads in the middle of nowhere.

That would be the more polite reply than what I originally wrote.

Lol post the original comment? There wasn't piling on, I'm literally the only person who took a (very) light shot. Don't be such a snowflake.

[8sPOT]

I think the incentive outweighs the threat of punishment here. It's so easy to steal a high end car and the risk of getting caught seems very low. Will likely only get worse from here as more people struggle to live. Pretty crazy to see just how quickly it can happen wow.

[D as in David]

Are steering wheel locks effective or have the thieves figured out an easy way around them?

[ResAlien]

Originally Posted by D as in David

Are steering wheel locks effective or have the thieves figured out an easy way around them?

The club? Think it works just fine unless they replace the steering wheel. Much of this stuff is performative safety to make the owner feel better. Someone wants it they’ll get it and it’s not like we’re living in 1990s New Jersey. Fear sells dumb products better than anything else. Homer Simpson tiger rock etc etc

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

What about garage openers, I wonder? Can garage opener codes be stolen the same way or are they on different transmission method?

For the car method, they aren't stealing the codes, they are just relaying them. Essentially they take the transmitted signal from your keys in the house and move them close to your door, so your car thinks the key is in range.

This doesn't work for garage doors as they don't transmit until you push the button, and once a code is used once, it's no longer valid (rolling codes). There's a clever technique called a "RollJam" that tricks someone into pushing their button a second time so the theif gets the next code, but otherwise these are not as easy to defeat.

Originally Posted by chedder

So they can get your fob's code just from being around it? You don't have to be pressing a button on it or anything?

Proximity keys are always actively transmitting.

[Raekwon]

There are cheap and simple kill switches, of course if you have remote start this doesn't help. But as it was pointed out before just get a $25 faraday box for keys.

[undercoverbrother]

What is the "safe distance" to store keys?

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by BigThief

Lol post the original comment? There wasn't piling on, I'm literally the only person who took a (very) light shot. Don't be such a snowflake.

[speede5]

Originally Posted by D as in David

Are steering wheel locks effective or have the thieves figured out an easy way around them?

Taking a hacksaw to the steering wheel takes less than a minute to remove a club. They are pretty useless.

[kevman]

All you're trying to do with any of these anti-theft techniques is make your vehicle harder to steel than your neighbours.

There is no way to stop a car theft when the thief really wants the car. But if you park your car in a garage with a club on it and keep the keys in a Faraday box, they'll probably take someone else's car.

I say this as a guy that's had two vehicles stolen, so I've got lots of experience on what not to do.

[woob]

Are any of the manufacturers doing anything to deal with this? Why don't we go back to a physical key, along with the fob? Or make it so the FOB is inserted somehow and has to make contact, transfering another piece of info, for the car to start? Sure it's cool I can keep my keys in my pocket and still drive my car. But you know what's cooler? Not getting my car stolen.

[BurningSteel]

Originally Posted by woob

Are any of the manufacturers doing anything to deal with this? Why don't we go back to a physical key, along with the fob? Or make it so the FOB is inserted somehow and has to make contact, transfering another piece of info, for the car to start? Sure it's cool I can keep my keys in my pocket and still drive my car. But you know what's cooler? Not getting my car stolen.

They dont care. Their business is selling new vehicles and parts to fix these vehicles. Theft is good for business as insurance pays out and you go replace said car. Especially with the 5 yr replacement riders on new vehicles these days.

[bc-chris]

Originally Posted by woob

Are any of the manufacturers doing anything to deal with this? Why don't we go back to a physical key, along with the fob? Or make it so the FOB is inserted somehow and has to make contact, transfering another piece of info, for the car to start? Sure it's cool I can keep my keys in my pocket and still drive my car. But you know what's cooler? Not getting my car stolen.

maybe this is too simple minded... but with so many vehicles having touch screens now why not have a number pad displayed on the screen and you have to enter a "pin" to get the vehicle out of park? sure, the thief can get in and get your car started, but if they can't get it in gear they are kinda stuck.

depending on where your fuses are just pull the fuse to your fuel pump (or install a kill switch for your fuel pump)... no gas, no go!

[Zary's-Mustache]

With how cheap GPS chips are these days..how aren't all new vehicles equipped with one?

A freakin airtag is like $30.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by bc-chris

maybe this is too simple minded... but with so many vehicles having touch screens now why not have a number pad displayed on the screen and you have to enter a "pin" to get the vehicle out of park? sure, the thief can get in and get your car started, but if they can't get it in gear they are kinda stuck.

depending on where your fuses are just pull the fuse to your fuel pump (or install a kill switch for your fuel pump)... no gas, no go!

Originally Posted by Zary's-Mustache

With how cheap GPS chips are these days..how aren't all new vehicles equipped with one?

A freakin airtag is like $30.

While both of these are good ideas, manufactures aren't so concerned about theft as they are consumer demand. How many people wouldn't want to buy a car that you had to enter a pin on before starting the car? Or put another way, how many people would pay extra for this feature? How many people would pay for an always on gps tracker as a feature, and how many people wouldn't but a vehicle that tracks all movement?

From a purely economic perspective, there'd be to be demand for these features as manufacturers have no real incentive to put more effort into anti theft features

[Fuzz]

Tesla's basically do all of this. The PIN is a feature you turn on or off. Has anyone not bought a Tesla because it tracks your every move? I'm sure there are some, but I get the feeling most people don't care anymore.

[bc-chris]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

While both of these are good ideas, manufactures aren't so concerned about theft as they are consumer demand. How many people wouldn't want to buy a car that you had to enter a pin on before starting the car? Or put another way, how many people would pay extra for this feature? How many people would pay for an always on gps tracker as a feature, and how many people wouldn't but a vehicle that tracks all movement?

From a purely economic perspective, there'd be to be demand for these features as manufacturers have no real incentive to put more effort into anti theft features

i get what you are saying, but don't most people have a "pin" to access their phone... and they do that multiple times per hour

[Zary's-Mustache]

I've never understood the fear of being tracked. Like what's so special in your life that it matters if you're being tracked.

Also, I ordered a 23&me DNA kit and had some conspiracy theory friends think I'm crazy "they're gonna have your DNA...you don't know what they'll do with it"

Yeah so? They can do whatever they want with it lol it doesn't effect me in any way.

[Acey]

This relay attack is not how they are stealing 6th gen Camaros, Range Rovers, etc.

They simply plug into the OBD port and program a new key, takes less than 2 minutes. Doesn't matter if your FOB is on the other side of the planet. They don't need it.