[Trade] Elias Lindholm + Noah Hanifin to Flames for D. Hamilton, Micheal Ferland, & Adam Fox

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Funkhouser

Well we can assume his unsigned value is 2 seconds (likely even less when we dealt him as his value has only increased)...Tell me that a signed Fox isn’t worth more. Today I’m sure he could grab a high first rounder or a top prospect

But I don’t see how this helps the Flames, since holding onto Fox means not including him in the Hanifin/Lindholm trade, which then means one of two things:

1) the trade simply never happens. In my mind, if this trade did not happen the Flames are a considerably worse team.

2) another asset is moved in Fox’s place. You have suggested that the Flames could easily have moved another prospect or a pick instead of Fox and gotten the same deal. I t think it’s exceedingly speculative that a pick could have been included; it certainly would have been higher than a third. So, that leaves the possibility of a prospect, which most likely would have been one of Rasmus Andersson, Juso Valimaki or Oliver Kyllington—three defensemen who have all played NHL games, and would be on the team this year. The same cannot be said for Fox: had the Flames included Kyllington in that deal and kept Fox, then they would have had to move him anyways this summer because he wasn’t signing here, and suddenly find themselves short on defensemen.

These sorts of multi-player deals are really difficult to assess in isolation (which is why FW’s attempt to attach draft pick values to each of the individual players is so irrelevant to this discussion). In the end Fox was an important piece in one of the most important trades the Flames have ever made, and he is not so easily disentangled from that. In the end, the Flames walked away from him with excellent value in return.


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[Lanny_McDonald]

Could we close this thread and start an Adam Fox Watch thread?

[Toonage]

^ I would like to suggest a thread title

"Fox Hunting"

[Split98]

I don't dwell on it, but I really dislike that this is wan option for Cox. Antonio Brown just finished demonstrating just how much this mindset impacts the game, and he's got a good chance at winning a championship for his 'efforts'. Rewarding such a terrible example of sportsmanship, respect and team-spirit is pretty gross.

Players need to get theirs, I agree - but it needs to be fixed. Millionaire/Billionaire owners need to be guaranteeing these players a salary for what they're doing out there - and players contracts to teams need to be honoured. Players and teams should not be at odds with one another, and throwing the whole thing in the trash isn't the answer. I very much wish that every player that put his health on the line for our entertainment was compensated through their life appropriately - and owners getting rich on these gladiators better be paying up. If a player is being mistreated by a team, has their career cut short from an organizations 'decision' or anything of the sort I'll defend the player before I'll ever defend the team - but this obviously isn't how this should work.

With that said, I hope Cox' career spirals into the dumpster. Before he's played a game he told 2 teams to stuff it so he can play for his fancy Rangers. I want players with that mindset to never demonstrate that they can make a career of it.

I wish him the worst.




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I also wish we'd stop necro-bumping. This is 1000% due to CPs hostility towards starting a new thread - but this is a great example of why we can stop.

[neo45]

I think it can be summed up as:

1. Fox never broke a single rule
2. Fox never lied to the team about his intent to sign like Erixon did
3. And most importantly:

Lindholm + Hanifin >>>> Fox + Ferland + Hamilton


So I wish the kid well

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by neo45

I think it can be summed up as:

1. Fox never broke a single rule
2. Fox never lied to the team about his intent to sign like Erixon did
3. And most importantly:

Lindholm + Hanifin >>>> Fox + Ferland + Hamilton


So I wish the kid well

I would also not be surprised if the reason Fox slipped to the 3rd round because teams suspected, based on his interview answers, that he would want to control where he plays even if it meant staying in university until the end. The Flames took a chance and it didn't pay off, but when it comes to a player with that level of skill, I think you need to roll the dice outside of the 1st and 2nd round. I doubt the Flames were surprised that they couldn't sign him, and you are right that Fox did the right thing by being forthright at an early stage allowing us to trade him him with value.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I would also not be surprised if the reason Fox slipped to the 3rd round because teams suspected, based on his interview answers) that he would want to control where he plays even if it meant staying in university until the end. The Flames took a chance and it didn't pay off, but when it comes to a player with that level of skill, I think you need to roll the dice outside of the 1st and 2nd round.

This is a really good point, and I think you could very well be right. But by the same token it is a mistake to think about drafting Fox in the Third Round as not paying off. Quite to the contrary, I think that the Flames got a lot of value out of that pick; if Fox was not as good of a prospect as he was at the time of the trade, the Flames would likely have had to include another more valuable prospect or a pick. Letting Fox go meant keeping Andersson and Kyllington, which is not a bad deal to make.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Drafting high potential guys with question marks (size, signability, other things) is a great way to use mid to late round picks. And I think it's one of the things that has helped improve the Flames drafting.
Take those home run cuts and connect on a couple and it will matter a lot more than drafting a bunch of guys with 4th line potential.
I'm sure the Flames saw some risk in Fox, but it was a great value selection even though they never signed him.
More of that.

[timbit]

When everything is said and done, Treliving pulled off one of the NHL trade heists of the last decade.

One year left til UFA status with Ferland as well as the uncertainty of Fox, leaves Carolina with Hamilton and a 2nd and 3rd rd pick, a year later.

Calgary comes out of the deal with a star young top line forward and a young potential top pair D, who are key cogs to building a championship team. Both at very reasonable long term deals.

[1Nite]

Didn't find a Fox thread, has anyone watched him play? Looking at his numbers, they look pretty good, maybe not as good as Calder/Norris trophy winner Ethan Bear, but for a 21 year old rookie. After 28 games, 5g, 10a, 15p, +5, TOI 18.08.

[the2bears]

Lame bump, make a Fox thread.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by 1Nite

Didn't find a Fox thread, has anyone watched him play? Looking at his numbers, they look pretty good, maybe not as good as Calder/Norris trophy winner Ethan Bear, but for a 21 year old rookie. After 28 games, 5g, 10a, 15p, +5, TOI 18.08.

Do that trade again every single day of any week.

[btimbit]

Oh hey did this trade happen again?

No?

Then why is the trade thread being bumped.

God I hate that. Just make a Fox thread

[Jacks]

Saw the first part of the thread title and felt a pain in my stomach.

[Dube]

Fleeced

[N-E-B]

Adam Fox is irrelevant and I don’t care how he does with a team we didn’t trade him to.

[FanIn80]

The guy was literally not going to sign here. Why do people care what he does?

There’s the girl you had a chance with but for some reason it just didn’t happen. Then there’s that girl who was a straight-up smokeshow, but you had zero chance with her, and in fact she never once even acknowledged your existence.

Yeah, you went to school with a hottie. She doesn’t even know you’re alive. Move on.

[dammage79]

Flippin love this thread. It's the best kind of cancer thread.

1st 20 pages are rock solid gold. I hope this thread gets bumped every time for any reason in perpetuity

[madmike]

Fox was never going to play in Calgary. Just like he was never going to play in Carolina. He wanted to play in NYC and got his wish. It sucks but that’s the risk you run when you draft college players.

[Dube]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

This is actually looking worse than the Phaneuf trade.

Love it