Ring Road To Nowhere

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by you&me

I think the problem with making choices based on "reasonable alternatives" is that they fail to provide enough meaningful benefit to persuade people to switch.

Like you're replying to someone that says it's a 20 minute bus ride to the CTrain station and then another, what, 15 minutes to DT (if that's the hypothetical destination). So you have a 35 minute commute that probably equals the worst of a rush hour drive (for anyone that would have Westbrook as the start to their CTrain journey).

So, at best, you've equaled the commute time. But this doesn't account for walking to the bus stop, waiting for the bus and walking from the Ctrain station to whatever your destination is DT. At best, in the sunniest of summer days, that's still an inconvenience and at worst, in the dead of winter, ####ing sucks... And nevermind some of the less than pleasant things you might encounter at the stations or on the train (like other people... ewww). How is that going to convince someone that sitting in their own car, listening to their music, with the climate control set how they want is not a better option?

To be clear, I'm not arguing against the idea that transit should be better and that driving infrastructure is probably over-invested in... But at the same time, I can totally see why people would rather drive than take transit, because in its current form, it's not a "reasonable alternative".

I live far out in Springbank and I can tell you that driving to the 69th street LRT from my place and riding in takes about 20 minutes less. Fun fact - you can listen to your own music on the LRT as well. Plus you can do anything that gets you a distracted driving ticket (well, almost). Transit is by far more pleasant than rush hour traffic IMO.

[you&me]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Instead of spending money to fix an intersection clogged with commuters all going to the same place, maybe improving connections should be more of a priority. If we keep trying to make driving the better choice, it's unwinnable. That's the point.

Not disagreeing at all, simply saying I can see why lots of people continue to choose their personal vehicle over transit as things are today.

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I live far out in Springbank and I can tell you that driving to the 69th street LRT from my place and riding in takes about 20 minutes less. Fun fact - you can listen to your own music on the LRT as well. Plus you can do anything that gets you a distracted driving ticket (well, almost). Transit is by far more pleasant than rush hour traffic IMO.

Right, so in the hypothetical, 15 mins from Westbrook was maybe a little long, but not unreasonable.

Edit - misread your post as saying "20 minutes or less", not 20 minutes less... I'll leave the rest of my post unedited because I feel the gist of my point stands, though a 20 minute difference (net 40 mins a day) might be persuade more people.

And your particular commute is different than Nancy's in that you drive to the station, which eliminates the walking to the bus stop, waiting for the bus and then taking the 20 minute bus ride to her nearest CTrain station, Westbrook.

Your situation doesn't sound so bad, and if I even had a commute, would be something I'd probably try. On the other hand, by adding the incremental inconveniences and possible weather-related unpleasantries of Nancy's example, I think I'd stick to my car (again, if I even had a commute)... Obviously the key is to make transit as convenient as possible, but every 'inconvenience' detracts from the 'reasonable-ness' of transit as an alternative and I can see why that's enough to keep (some? A lot? Most?) people in their cars... Because at this point, transit isn't a 'reasonable enough' alternative.

[Nancy]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I live far out in Springbank and I can tell you that driving to the 69th street LRT from my place and riding in takes about 20 minutes less. Fun fact - you can listen to your own music on the LRT as well. Plus you can do anything that gets you a distracted driving ticket (well, almost). Transit is by far more pleasant than rush hour traffic IMO.

Reserved park and ride spots should be for Calgary residents only, but that's another conversation.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I live far out in Springbank and I can tell you that driving to the 69th street LRT from my place and riding in takes about 20 minutes less. Fun fact - you can listen to your own music on the LRT as well. Plus you can do anything that gets you a distracted driving ticket (well, almost). Transit is by far more pleasant than rush hour traffic IMO.

I’m not calling you a liar, but you are lying.

It’s roughly the same time door to desk (with driving slightly quicker) for me to drive in and to park at 69th and ride in from Montreaux. I ride in 80% and drive in 20%.

I enjoy the train more and take it when I don’t need to drive but there is no need to lie.

[Jimmy Stang]

Originally Posted by Nancy

Reserved park and ride spots should be for Calgary residents only, but that's another conversation.

Aren't those paid spots anyway? I'm OK with a non-Calgarian paying a user fee to Calgary Transit to park.

Not to mention that transit receives funding from both the provincial and federal governments, so those living outside of Calgary have paid into our transit system through their taxes.

[Acey]

Originally Posted by Nancy

First day of full commuter traffic at Bow & Sarcee. Google is telling me it is 5 minutes longer to work than usual.

Somebody at the city traffic department cursing under their breath saying, "I told you so..."

[Jimmy Stang]

Originally Posted by Acey

Somebody at the city traffic department cursing under their breath saying, "I told you so..."

I'm not familiar with how these things work with different levels of government, but is it possible that the province basically said "we're opening early - deal with it"?

I think that the city would've preferred that the ring road opened fully in 2024 instead of this partial opening, simply because of the ripple effect on city roads.

Of course, it is nice to see some progress that we can drive on. But I'm not convinced that there is a net benefit to the early opening if commutes on Bow, Trans Canada, and others, are longer and more frustrating.

I remain concerned about WB Trans Canada to NB Stoney. If I were still commuting home on that stretch, I'd probably start seeing a lot more of Bowness...

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Stang

Aren't those paid spots anyway? I'm OK with a non-Calgarian paying a user fee to Calgary Transit to park.

Not to mention that transit receives funding from both the provincial and federal governments, so those living outside of Calgary have paid into our transit system through their taxes.

They are paid spots (the one I use). If you are an early bird you could snag one of the few free ones. And since I’m a partner in a DT law firm I suppose I pay both corporate and property tax (the latter in a roundabout way).

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Weitz

I’m not calling you a liar, but you are lying.

It’s roughly the same time door to desk (with driving slightly quicker) for me to drive in and to park at 69th and ride in from Montreaux. I ride in 80% and drive in 20%.

I enjoy the train more and take it when I don’t need to drive but there is no need to lie.

10 minutes from my house to 69th station, 15 on the train. Driving on Crowchild and downtown alone takes that long in rush hour. Plus the time to get from Springbank to Crowchild.

EDIT: Google maps has the drive from my place to DT at 35 minutes. About 10m slower than my hybrid way. Plus the hassle of course.

[lazypucker]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

10 minutes from my house to 69th station, 15 on the train. Driving on Crowchild and downtown alone takes that long in rush hour. Plus the time to get from Springbank to Crowchild.

25 minutes door to door from Springbank to downtown? I guess Springbank is the new Airdrie now...

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by lazypucker

25 minutes door to door from Springbank to downtown? I guess Springbank is the new Airdrie now...

TBF it’s an easy drive from my place on Hwy 8 to 69th st station (slowed a bit by the RR construction). I imagine it’s a lot longer from, say Springbank airport.

[monkeyman]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I live far out in Springbank and I can tell you that driving to the 69th street LRT from my place and riding in takes about 20 minutes less. Fun fact - you can listen to your own music on the LRT as well. Plus you can do anything that gets you a distracted driving ticket (well, almost). Transit is by far more pleasant than rush hour traffic IMO.

Originally Posted by GioforPM

10 minutes from my house to 69th station, 15 on the train. Driving on Crowchild and downtown alone takes that long in rush hour. Plus the time to get from Springbank to Crowchild.

EDIT: Google maps has the drive from my place to DT at 35 minutes. About 10m slower than my hybrid way. Plus the hassle of course.

Is the first one lawyer billing time math?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by monkeyman

Is the first one lawyer billing time math?

No, I still think it’s 20 minutes slower. Google maps is pretty aggressive and underestimates rush hour traffic. But even it has 10 minutes difference, is my point. Plus you can’t read or work or play a game on your phone.

[you&me]

So in GioforPM's particular scenario, he finds transit to be a reasonable alternative.

His location means he drives to the station, rather than walking to a bus stop, waiting in whatever weather, hoping the bus is on schedule and then riding that bus to the nearest CTrain station.

His schedule allows him to arrive early enough to the station to easily find a parking spot.

That station is at the end of the line, so the train isn't always packed and he always gets a seat.

He's a lawyer, so it's very likely that his office is within a block or two of 7th ave and the final leg of his commute is relatively short (not a long walk, or another bus ride from the CTrain station to the stop nearest his office).

As a lawyer, clients typically come to him, so the times he would need his own car during his work day are limited.

I think that any dramatic change to two (if not one) of those points, changes the "reasonable" part of transit as an alternative to driving...

Again, I don't commute, so I don't really have a dog in this fight... I'm just pointing out why I think so many people continue to commute by car. Selfishly, for the times I do have to drive during rush hour, I do wish more people would take transit

I don't know the stats or if it's even true, but isn't the CTrain considered one of the more successful rapid transit systems in North America?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by you&me

So in GioforPM's particular scenario, he finds transit to be a reasonable alternative.

His location means he drives to the station, rather than walking to a bus stop, waiting in whatever weather, hoping the bus is on schedule and then riding that bus to the nearest CTrain station.

His schedule allows him to arrive early enough to the station to easily find a parking spot.

That station is at the end of the line, so the train isn't always packed and he always gets a seat.

He's a lawyer, so it's very likely that his office is within a block or two of 7th ave and the final leg of his commute is relatively short (not a long walk, or another bus ride from the CTrain station to the stop nearest his office).

As a lawyer, clients typically come to him, so the times he would need his own car during his work day are limited.

I think that any dramatic change to two (if not one) of those points, changes the "reasonable" part of transit as an alternative to driving...

Again, I don't commute, so I don't really have a dog in this fight... I'm just pointing out why I think so many people continue to commute by car. Selfishly, for the times I do have to drive during rush hour, I do wish more people would take transit

I don't know the stats or if it's even true, but isn't the CTrain considered one of the more successful rapid transit systems in North America?

All of this is true. Except the "always gets a seat" part. Going almost always. Coming back - rarely. Also, the parking spots are guaranteed, but the close ones are all gone by the time I get there.

All that said, when I lived in Coach Hill and took the bus, it was still better. Though I admit when I think transit and the advantages - it's the train I'm thinking of. And the bigger Calgary gets, the more the difference grows (extreme example: Manhattan)

[BlackArcher101]

What in the hell are they doing? A single lane? Why would they put traffic onto that bridge if this was needed.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1709644704034525364

[calgarygringo]

Thats normal for evening rush hour and even longer some days. Some smart guy must have not been thinking on this idea.

Originally Posted by BlackArcher101

What in the hell are they doing? A single lane? Why would they put traffic onto that bridge if this was needed.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1709644704034525364

[you&me]

Originally Posted by calgarygringo

Thats normal for evening rush hour and even longer some days. Some smart guy must have not been thinking on this idea.

I was down that way last week during the evening rush hour and traffic was backed up into Chaparral to 194th and into Sundance on Sun Valley to Sunmills, from trying to get east bound onto Stoney (I have no idea where all of that traffic was coming from). Driving over Stoney, EB traffic was backed up farther than I could see. I didn't realize at the time that was just normal for the evening rush... That must be infuriating for anyone that has no viable alternative route.

[GioforPM]

I get repairing a bridge. But how long has this been on?

PS - when are they going to finish with Crowchild/Glenmore?

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by you&me

So in GioforPM's particular scenario, he finds transit to be a reasonable alternative.

His location means he drives to the station, rather than walking to a bus stop, waiting in whatever weather, hoping the bus is on schedule and then riding that bus to the nearest CTrain station.

His schedule allows him to arrive early enough to the station to easily find a parking spot.

That station is at the end of the line, so the train isn't always packed and he always gets a seat.

He's a lawyer, so it's very likely that his office is within a block or two of 7th ave and the final leg of his commute is relatively short (not a long walk, or another bus ride from the CTrain station to the stop nearest his office).

As a lawyer, clients typically come to him, so the times he would need his own car during his work day are limited.

I think that any dramatic change to two (if not one) of those points, changes the "reasonable" part of transit as an alternative to driving...

Again, I don't commute, so I don't really have a dog in this fight... I'm just pointing out why I think so many people continue to commute by car. Selfishly, for the times I do have to drive during rush hour, I do wish more people would take transit

I don't know the stats or if it's even true, but isn't the CTrain considered one of the more successful rapid transit systems in North America?

The solution to Calgary's transportation woes - more lawyers.