Troy "Transgressions" Brouwer

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by united

My favourite part of looking back on these threads is before before entering, quickly compiling a list of posters I think would have liked the deal and those who I think would have hated it. Yep, it's exactly the people I thought on both sides. Yet only one side - the side that was ultimately right (shocker) - gets piledriven for having a different opinion.

Thankfully I’m always on the right side.

[DeluxeMoustache]

One (1) game where the whole team was crap. Frankly that game more warranted a Gaudreau or Brodie transgressions thread, among others.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Calm down. Quoting something you said a year ago is not a personal attack on you or even a call out. They are just funny things to read when the opinions are so strong. Your Colborne statement is funny because it's a day after he just cleared waivers, it doesn't mean you were wrong on that day.

That said some (not all, or most and not necessarily yourself) of the posters who said those things are generally known to be pretty smug about their evaluations and known to throw around personal jabs at dissenting ones, if you want to call that a callout, sure - I am calling out MMF who is not even on CP anymore technically although it's pretty obvious who his alt account is.



No, I was not. I said in that thread that Brouwer was a middle six forward/third liner even if I hated the signing. He has not been a middle six forward for us. I was wrong and if you called me out for it I would not be bothered. Sorry if I offended you by quoting your own relatively strong opinion.



Not that my being "smart" has any bearing but are you really surprised that an already slow 30 year old regressed? This isn't TJ Brodie or Aaron Ekblad regressing here.



Likewise. Not eveything is personal. You've been known to make it personal in the past though. And here you are doing it again.

Meh, I know since you were probably the most vocal about being against the Brouwer signing you're probably feelling a bit of vindication, and maybe rightfully so since you took a LOT of crap for it at the time. Your post just came off really smug, that's all

[AustinL_NHL]

+1 for the advanced stats guys.

Can't believe anyone actually thought that was a good signing at the time, let alone a great one like some people said.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by AustinL_NHL

+1 for the advanced stats guys.

Can't believe anyone actually thought that was a good signing at the time, let alone a great one like some people said.

He just came off a playoff run with a 0.65 PPG pace. It's not hard to see what Treliving saw

[AustinL_NHL]

Originally Posted by btimbit

He just came off a playoff run with a 0.65 PPG pace. It's not hard to see what Treliving saw

Any person (analytics guys or "eye test" guys) should've known very well that Brouwer's playoff performance was a complete one-off.

He shot 22.9% for God's sake. This is not throwing shade at you personally but any person with half a brain knew anyone paying him based off a 20 game sample size in the playoffs was going to instantly regret it.

He was never a good playoff performer before that either. It amazes me what a flukey 20 game run can do for some people.

[Stay Golden]

Brouwer gives me a headache. He is for sure in the top 20 for one of the worst signings in the Flames history.
Gulutzan is going to learn the hard way Brouwer should be limited to 4 min a night. I would love it if he just gets stuck in the press box for the season or until he is dealt for any round of a draft pick.

[FBI]

I kind of appreciated Granteed digging up all the interesting comments from everyone in that thread so I didn't have to read the whole thing. Didn't come off as a personal attack to me.

[gunnner]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Unreal. That takes a special kind of arrogance to attempt to call everybody out but not put anything in context. Even bolding the passages people ought to be ashamed of but ignoring everything else they may have said that adds context is particularly contentious.

Trust me, you don't want someone searching out all of the flippant comments you've made about players or the incorrect evaluations you've made, because trust me man, you've made plenty of them.

Congrats, you were right about Brouwer, but it also took some serious regression on Brouwer's part for you to be right about him, so really, you weren't that smart.

Seriously man. Get. Over. Yourself.

I hate these "poor me" posts (not just you Cali, everyone). This is a hockey forum. We debate. We discuss. We give our opinions if a trade/signing is good or bad. Sometimes we will be proven right and other times proven wrong. And when we are wrong, we should be able to gracefully accept a not so subtle told you so. Relax a little.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Calm down. Quoting something you said a year ago is not a personal attack on you or even a call out. They are just funny things to read when the opinions are so strong. Your Colborne statement is funny because it's a day after he just cleared waivers, it doesn't mean you were wrong on that day.

That said some (not all, or most and not necessarily yourself) of the posters who said those things are generally known to be pretty smug about their evaluations and known to throw around personal jabs at dissenting ones, if you want to call that a callout, sure - I am calling out MMF who is not even on CP anymore technically although it's pretty obvious who his alt account is.



No, I was not. I said in that thread that Brouwer was a middle six forward/third liner even if I hated the signing. He has not been a middle six forward for us. I was wrong and if you called me out for it I would not be bothered. Sorry if I offended you by quoting your own relatively strong opinion.



Not that my being "smart" has any bearing but are you really surprised that an already slow 30 year old regressed? This isn't TJ Brodie or Aaron Ekblad regressing here.



Likewise. Not eveything is personal. You've been known to make it personal in the past though. And here you are doing it again.

Ok, I need to apologize first, so let me say I'm sorry for overreacting.

I read that after a very long and stressful day, and right after I had just been dealing with hours of a screaming baby and a frustrated/crying wife. I was really on edge so I assumed the worst about your intent. That said, maybe add more than "yikes" in your post so your intent is a little more clear. A lot can be taken from that if I don't know your tone, and the internet is famously tone deaf.

I really have no problem admitting I was wrong, and I am just a little surprised at how badly Brouwer has regressed. He looked good in preseason last year, and for a few games to start the year, but then just fell off the map. Perhaps there's something going on with him personally that we're not aware of, or it's just the hard miles of playing the way he did for so long. Not sure, but it's disappointing for sure.

And I sure am glad that there are smarter guys than me making decision about personnel like Colborne. Can you imagine if we signed him for around $3 million a season? He'd likely be another buyout by this point.

[OzSome]

If Brouwer signed for $2M per on 2-year contract instead of $4.5M per on 4 years, people wouldn't be so hard on him I think. He would have suck last game and probably only a few of us will say something. Brouwer was never been a top 6 forwards and was always a defensive forward who can score goals at times. Unfortunately GG and others keep putting him on the first or second or even the third line last season. I think Jagr bumping him on the 4th line would do Brouwer justice. He will never score like Gaudreau or Monahan but I think he'll make the 4th line better. F. Hamilton should be move and Lazar better get his act together now or else just send him to Stockton and get some ice time and develop.

[Lil Pedro]

I'll be the first to say that I was proponent of the team signing Brouwer at the time as he fit an organizational need. It's too bad he's been an utter disappointment. I feel that the Brouwer signing had a big impact as to how Treliving approached July 1st this year.

[Heavy Jack]

Who here would take Jarome Iginla in the 4th line RW over Brouwer right now?? Even the staunch supporters of NOT bringing Iggy back would surely slot him in Brouwer's place. If we were able to jettison both Brouwer AND Stajan and the numbers made sense it would be a pretty fun team to watch.

Gaudreau - Monahan - Ferland
Tkachuk - Backlund - Frolik
Versteeg - Bennett - Jagr
Lazar - Jankowski - Iginla
Glass, Hathaway

Giordano - Hamilton
Brodie - Hamonic
Stone - Kulak
Bartkowski

Smith
Lack

PP1
Gaudreau - Monahan - Jagr
Brodie - Versteeg

PP2
Bennett- Backlund - Iginla
Giordano- Hamilton

[GioforPM]

as a person who (a) doesn't hate Brouwer and (b) gets tired of constant complaining about any particular whipping boy, I'm happy to see this topic. However, I predict it will not have the desired effect.

[burnitdown]

Originally Posted by FBI

I kind of appreciated Granteed digging up all the interesting comments from everyone in that thread so I didn't have to read the whole thing. Didn't come off as a personal attack to me.

I agree - I thought it was a nice, quick summary that led to some good laughs. I always find it interesting to look back and see what people thought at the time - especially things like the prospect rankings and free agent signings. Serves as a good reminder that we're usually all just guessing...

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

Brouwer gives me a headache. He is for sure in the top 20 for one of the worst signings in the Flames history.
Gulutzan is going to learn the hard way Brouwer should be limited to 4 min a night. I would love it if he just gets stuck in the press box for the season or until he is dealt for any round of a draft pick.

I find it amazing that anyone who thinks Brouwer is "one of the worse signings" in Flames history, and should be limited to either "4 minutes a night" or "stuck in the press box", would think that he can be dealt for a "draft pick", which means he would have positive value over an above his cap hit.

If Calgary could move him without retention or taking on an equally bad salary, it would have been done already.

[Ducay]

Originally Posted by JFK

re: quote about Jagr
It looked bad just put on twitter with no context but the actual quote with video was fine. Brouwer might be playing terrible, but he comes across as a team player.

Agreed, he is a great team player. Problem is - it's for the other team.

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by united

My favourite part of looking back on these threads is before before entering, quickly compiling a list of posters I think would have liked the deal and those who I think would have hated it. Yep, it's exactly the people I thought on both sides. Yet only one side - the side that was ultimately right (shocker) - gets piledriven for having a different opinion.

I am proud to be one of the people that was trashed for trashing the signing.

I think the main problem with Brouwer is his age.
It's never a good idea to give term to a player who plays this type of game.
He never had a lot of offensive instincts to begin with. The instincts are what usually last longer in terms of age. Not the physical style of play.

At least the contract isn't terribly long. After this year, there's only 2 years left.
The Stajan contract is finally done after this year.

[Heavy Jack]

I think the thing that bothers me the most about Brouwer is that he was advertised as being a physical presence and was going to bring that element to the wings for Calgary and I just have not seen this play from Troy at all. He was credited with 171 hits last year but I think that seems a little too high considering how he played last year; he had 200 + in 3 straight seasons before last year. Everything he was signed for he has yet to deliver on and now being relegated to the 4th line almost assures us that we are not going to get what we paid for in this player. It seemed like an odd signing at the time it was made, one of those that makes you think he was signed just for the sake of signing a FA during the FA opening.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by AustinL_NHL

+1 for the advanced stats guys.

Can't believe anyone actually thought that was a good signing at the time, let alone a great one like some people said.

I have always advocated for this being a bad signing. The problem I have is that people are too caught up in whining about Brouwer right now when they should be focusing on the real culprits. The top 4/5 forwards need to be much better. If Brouwer is the reason the team is losing there are much worse factors at play.