09-15-2020, 10:50 AM
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#21
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Franchise Player
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Virginia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden
This could very well be what finally sinks Florida and Arizona. But I suppose that Seattle money might hold teams over for another year.
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Florida doesn't have any real, paying fans in normal times. I don't think this would hurt them at all. They'll survive on their dumb tv deal that pays millions for no one to watch and other sources of revenue from people not watching their games. I always assumed they just existed as a money laundering front anyway.
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09-15-2020, 10:52 AM
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#22
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Lifetime Suspension
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: The Void between Darkness and Light
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nfotiu
Florida doesn't have any real, paying fans in normal times. I don't think this would hurt them at all. They'll survive on their dumb tv deal that pays millions for no one to watch and other sources of revenue from people not watching their games. I always assumed they just existed as a money laundering front anyway.
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It's arena gate receipts that keep them afloat and I wonder how badly that is impacting them right now.
The rumour pre-covid was Florida ownership wanted tallonnto cut 10m from the payroll, who knows what the situation is now without Taylor swift rolling through town every month.
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09-15-2020, 12:22 PM
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#23
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Franchise Player
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Have details ever come out about limiting bonuses/frontloading/backloading of contracts?
Rich teams can backload deals as much as possible
A lot of players baked reduced compensation this season into their current deals as lockout protection, so most teams have a lower real $ to AAV ratio this year than normal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ricardodw
Why does Seattle pay a 650 million expansion fee when they could buy Florida and Arizona and combine them for 610 M ?
Florida was worth $310 M and Arizona $300M BEFORE the shutdown.
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1. You always have to add a $150M+ relocation fee. Before getting to 32 teams, that number would probably have been even higher.
2. There is lots of skepticism about the $650M figure. The league/other owners have obvious reasons for wanting it reported that way. There's probably a round about way of justifying that number, but it's unlikely that Seattle cuts immediate/direct cheque(s) totalling $650M.
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09-15-2020, 01:14 PM
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#24
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Franchise Player
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Found an answer to my question re: salary variance
Quote:
Salary variances on standard player contracts will also change, particularly with multi-year and front-loaded salary structures. Under the previous CBA, the year with the lowest salary could not be less than 50 per cent of the year with the highest salary. That number has dropped to 35 per cent.
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https://www.thestar.com/sports/hocke...agreement.html
Last edited by powderjunkie; 09-15-2020 at 01:16 PM.
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09-15-2020, 04:22 PM
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#25
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Lifetime Suspension
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy
If a team traded for Lucic right now I think all they'd have to pay him over the next 2 seasons would be $7,750,000.
He's still owed $10,000,000 on his contract, but the oilers are paying $2,250,000 of that ($750,000 x 3)
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Retained salary trades are percentage based to account for front/back loaded contracts, the Oilers retained 12.5%. That means with $10,000,000 remaining the Oilers are only paying $1,250,000 in actual dollars.
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The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Crown Royal For This Useful Post:
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09-15-2020, 05:04 PM
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#26
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Scoring Winger
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Quote:
. Depending on the size of the market and the structure of the revenue streams (i.e. do they get all of the money from parking, concessions, etc.) teams generate between $1.5 million and $3 million per home date.
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Will the 2020-21 season even go ahead without fans? If the numbers from the athletic are close, using 2 million/home game, game day revenue is 2.5 billion, roughly half of the 4.8 billion HRR. (2m*41 home games*31 teams). If the season is cancelled, will they just push all the contracts out a year, making each player a year older, further complicating the job of a GM?
If these numbers are out to lunch, I’m willing to be corrected.
https://theathletic.com/1672688/2020...ach-home-game/
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09-15-2020, 05:18 PM
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#27
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Lifetime Suspension
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reggie28
Will the 2020-21 season even go ahead without fans? If the numbers from the athletic are close, using 2 million/home game, game day revenue is 2.5 billion, roughly half of the 4.8 billion HRR. (2m*41 home games*31 teams). If the season is cancelled, will they just push all the contracts out a year, making each player a year older, further complicating the job of a GM?
If these numbers are out to lunch, I’m willing to be corrected.
https://theathletic.com/1672688/2020...ach-home-game/
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Those numbers seem more like playoff numbers, but I could be mistaken. But the season has to happen due to TV contracts.
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09-15-2020, 09:09 PM
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#28
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Lifetime Suspension
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Stampede Grounds
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crown Royal
Those numbers seem more like playoff numbers, but I could be mistaken. But the season has to happen due to TV contracts.
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I suspect streaming revenue is way down. Likewise for ads. The games really aren’t very exciting without an atmosphere of fans. Its high quality men’s league viewing. Wouldn’t be surprised if Rogers pulls the plug so they don’t have to pay to produce a full season of this.
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09-15-2020, 09:12 PM
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#29
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Resident Videologist
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Calgary
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I highly doubt Rogers could simply "pull the plug" on a $5.232 billion contract.
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The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to AC For This Useful Post:
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09-15-2020, 09:42 PM
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#30
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Lifetime Suspension
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Stampede Grounds
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AC
I highly doubt Rogers could simply "pull the plug" on a $5.232 billion contract.
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It would be shocking if the contract didn’t have a provision that allows either party to assert that circumstances out of its control prevent it from meeting the terms of the bargain. Or alternatively asserting that the other side is not delivering its end of the bargain.
Whatever these current games are, they are clearly not the product anticipated by Rogers in its contract.
I can’t even begin to imagine what a snore fest mid season games would be like in this set up
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09-15-2020, 10:03 PM
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#31
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corral
It would be shocking if the contract didn’t have a provision that allows either party to assert that circumstances out of its control prevent it from meeting the terms of the bargain. Or alternatively asserting that the other side is not delivering its end of the bargain.
Whatever these current games are, they are clearly not the product anticipated by Rogers in its contract.
I can’t even begin to imagine what a snore fest mid season games would be like in this set up
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And the NHL says "we're providing NHL hockey games...like it says in the contract".
Caveat emptor.
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09-15-2020, 10:19 PM
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#32
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Lifetime Suspension
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Stampede Grounds
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Quote:
Originally Posted by powderjunkie
And the NHL says "we're providing NHL hockey games...like it says in the contract".
Caveat emptor.
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And there is the argument. Probably worth fighting over if you are Rogers. A few million in legal fees is well worth it in these circumstances
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09-15-2020, 10:42 PM
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#33
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#1 Goaltender
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: North of the River, South of the Bluff
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corral
It would be shocking if the contract didn’t have a provision that allows either party to assert that circumstances out of its control prevent it from meeting the terms of the bargain. Or alternatively asserting that the other side is not delivering its end of the bargain.
Whatever these current games are, they are clearly not the product anticipated by Rogers in its contract.
I can’t even begin to imagine what a snore fest mid season games would be like in this set up
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Force Majure is common language in contracts. Still doesn’t mean litigation is avoided, but this pretty much fits that bill. That said Rogers would argue that the agreement can still continue and site playoffs as examples.
I still think from credibly perspective that they go ahead with the games.
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09-15-2020, 10:47 PM
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#34
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reggie28
Will the 2020-21 season even go ahead without fans? If the numbers from the athletic are close, using 2 million/home game, game day revenue is 2.5 billion, roughly half of the 4.8 billion HRR. (2m*41 home games*31 teams). If the season is cancelled, will they just push all the contracts out a year, making each player a year older, further complicating the job of a GM?
If these numbers are out to lunch, I’m willing to be corrected.
https://theathletic.com/1672688/2020...ach-home-game/
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A regular season without fans is really, really bad news for the NHL.
It’s a very legitimate question. How late can you start, how short a season can you have are the big questions. I do believe there comes a point where it is in no one’s best interest to start a season.
It’s why the whole argument centered around “skip the bubble idea for the playoffs and focus on next year” never made much sense. It was that or nothing.
Would allowing arenas at 25% capacity be a tipping point?
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09-15-2020, 10:58 PM
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#35
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Lifetime Suspension
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Stampede Grounds
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldDutch
Force Majure is common language in contracts. Still doesn’t mean litigation is avoided, but this pretty much fits that bill. That said Rogers would argue that the agreement can still continue and site playoffs as examples.
I still think from credibly perspective that they go ahead with the games.
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Rogers won’t hesitate to litigate if it is losing money on producing these games. What’s a few million, or more frankly, if it buys an opportunity to get out of losing millions more producing a show that hardly anyone watches.
Litigation is just good business sometimes. This would be one of them.
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09-16-2020, 10:47 AM
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#36
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Calgary
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If the league can shut down for a year due to a lockout, how is this any different revenue-wise? Why is this so much harder for teams to bear? So far, they've only missed about 15% of the regular season and managed to cobble together playoffs. Surely they can miss next season, or have an abbreviated season and be fine.
Or is the bigger issue (compounding issue) that all of these stadiums aren't holding any events at all?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by kurwamac
you should look in the mirror and worry about yourself.. you fight for scraps in Canada - I've got it made keep tap dancing for a bunch of guys son - I've got it good where it counts boy
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09-16-2020, 03:00 PM
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#37
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corral
Rogers won’t hesitate to litigate if it is losing money on producing these games. What’s a few million, or more frankly, if it buys an opportunity to get out of losing millions more producing a show that hardly anyone watches.
Litigation is just good business sometimes. This would be one of them.
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Rogers may be dumb, but they aren’t that dumb (to pursue a case with zero % chance of winning). Weak take.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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09-16-2020, 07:34 PM
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#38
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Appealing my suspension
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Just outside Enemy Lines
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VilleN
If the league can shut down for a year due to a lockout, how is this any different revenue-wise? Why is this so much harder for teams to bear? So far, they've only missed about 15% of the regular season and managed to cobble together playoffs. Surely they can miss next season, or have an abbreviated season and be fine.
Or is the bigger issue (compounding issue) that all of these stadiums aren't holding any events at all?
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This time you have players who still want to be paid and a valid labour agreement in place. In the lockouts there was no labour agreement and enough players were willing to forego salaries to get a better deal.
__________________
"Some guys like old balls"
Patriots QB Tom Brady
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09-16-2020, 07:58 PM
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#39
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylvanfan
This time you have players who still want to be paid and a valid labour agreement in place. In the lockouts there was no labour agreement and enough players were willing to forego salaries to get a better deal.
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Yeah... I forgot about the whole players not getting paid part. Duh.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by kurwamac
you should look in the mirror and worry about yourself.. you fight for scraps in Canada - I've got it made keep tap dancing for a bunch of guys son - I've got it good where it counts boy
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09-16-2020, 10:14 PM
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#40
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Lifetime Suspension
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Stampede Grounds
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Quote:
Originally Posted by powderjunkie
Rogers may be dumb, but they aren’t that dumb (to pursue a case with zero % chance of winning). Weak take.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Yeah cuz what’s being played now is exactly what Rogers paid billions for. The exclusive right to broadcast high quality men’s league tournament in an empty arena with a bit of emotion but not very much. These playoffs are LMAO. And if they try this for a full season it will be a farce.
Good thing Rogers isn’t paying you for legal advice LOL
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