Let's Talk about the Calgary Police Service

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Umm, not to do it in the first place?


Look, I get it. People perceive things differently, emotions run high, your own biases affect the narrative. It's human nature to think you're in the right at the time. If she made her post the night of the incident and had a chance to rethink things or took the opportunity to discuss with the police when they tried to contact her and then issued an apology shortly after it occurred. Fine. I could accept that at facevalue.

"Not to do it in the first place" is a totally fine, normal, and acceptable response in science fiction where you can go back in time and erase an event. Barring that, in the real world, we use apologies (among other things) to make amends and attempt to correct our wrongs. Again: what actual solution (attainable in real life) would you like to see here? Because it seems like you're more concerned about the grinding of your axe than a real life resolution to this issue.

If you knew the officer had accepted the apology, would you accept it as well? At this moment, there's no point in being angry for the officer or against this person when it seems to have resolved itself as well as could be expected following the incidents (officer cleared, person gives a good apology, the end). Outside of turning it into some social justice issue, that is.

[Enigma]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

"Not to do it in the first place" is a totally fine, normal, and acceptable response in science fiction where you can go back in time and erase an event. Barring that, in the real world, we use apologies (among other things) to make amends and attempt to correct our wrongs. Again: what actual solution (attainable in real life) would you like to see here? Because it seems like you're more concerned about the grinding of your axe than a real life resolution to this issue.

If you knew the officer had accepted the apology, would you accept it as well? At this moment, there's no point in being angry for the officer or against this person when it seems to have resolved itself as well as could be expected following the incidents (officer cleared, person gives a good apology, the end). Outside of turning it into some social justice issue, that is.

He's saying he does not believe the apology is sincere.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

"Not to do it in the first place" is a totally fine, normal, and acceptable response in science fiction where you can go back in time and erase an event. Barring that, in the real world, we use apologies (among other things) to make amends and attempt to correct our wrongs. Again: what actual solution (attainable in real life) would you like to see here? Because it seems like you're more concerned about the grinding of your axe than a real life resolution to this issue.

PepsiFree, you're aware she let this go on for over a month right? It was no longer a heat of the moment situation where she would go back in time and reverse things. Every day for a month, she was actively avoiding police contact. She was avoiding accepting responsibility, she was hurting this person's reputation. For a month. She was letting people believe this officer was pulling over black people and shouting, screaming, harassing and demeaning them for the entirety of the stop because he was a racist even though she knew there was video evidence that could easily show what actually happened.

Police had alluded to exploring options to have the video released a month ago. Maybe the threat of having it sent to media was enough for her to compromise and post a retraction. But this was a carefully worded retraction more than an apology. She pretty much says "I thought that actually happened but of course there's video evidence that completely destroys my narrative, so in that case even though I thought this happened, it didn't."

In any case, this started because someone posted how great a person she was. I took issue with that because I don't think people who stoop so low deserve to be recognized as such.

[PepsiFree]

Not even people who some think are great, are perfect.

Oh well.

[GGG]

Come on there is a difference between not perfect and willfully dishonest trying to damage a persons career and undermine public trust in an institution for personal gain.

[flamesforcup]

Had one positive encounter when i was around 10 with a very nice female officer who explained to me it isn't good to play with a toy gun outside and once from a black officer who offered me a ride home at night. Since the last 5 years all my encounters have been very negative though. Not a fan of CPS.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by GGG

Come on there is a difference between not perfect and willfully dishonest trying to damage a persons career and undermine public trust in an institution for personal gain.

Sure. In the first one you shrug and move on, a lesson is (hopefully) learned.

In the second, you assume intent to fit your own narrative of events you weren't involved in and stay unsatisified with the resolution forever. For what benefit? Unclear.

I'm still fine with option 1.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Sure. In the first one you shrug and move on, a lesson is (hopefully) learned.

In the second, you assume intent to fit your own narrative of events you weren't involved in and stay unsatisified with the resolution forever. For what benefit? Unclear.

I'm still fine with option 1.

You're aware she saw the video a month ago though, right? At that point, even if she was deluded to think her narrative was correct initially, there was no longer an argument to be made.

The day she saw the video she should have issued an apology if she was actually a good person. She didn't. She let the wound to counter to fester, she knew the tweet was being shared and reposted, even if she had deleted the initial one. It takes a truly vile person to be responsible for an innocent person being called racist when you know that isn't the case. Then, probably with a threat of legal action or the release of the video, she released a carefully crafted "apology" and doubles up on it a week after that. I think you're naive to believe anything is done without knowing the video existed.

This is also the exact same thing she did three years ago which she knew boosted her career.

As for what benefit? I don't see the harm in calling out vile people for disgusting actions. Knowing that we don't support this type of stuff is important to let her (and others like her) know we don't condone them. As for fitting my narrative, well that's "my one-sided perception of the events" as Sunday would tell us but at least mine wasn't completely made up and actually had some facts to support it...

[Flames_Gimp]

Originally Posted by flamesforcup

Had one positive encounter when i was around 10 with a very nice female officer who explained to me it isn't good to play with a toy gun outside and once from a black officer who offered me a ride home at night. Since the last 5 years all my encounters have been very negative though. Not a fan of CPS.

and I've had nothing but positive encounters, but I don't believe there's no bad apples. don't let some bad experiences paint an entire organization the same color.

[MBates]

Last month I met for coffee with one of the true good guys - CPS Inspector Chris Butler. He published this editorial piece a while back:

http://calgaryherald.com/opinion/col...olice-officers

After reading this I submitted a formal compliment to professional standards and the Chief's office commending Inspector Butler for his courage and leadership. As a result, Inspector Butler and I met up and swapped a few tales as two professionals who play different but mutually respected roles in the justice system.

It came as no surprise to me that we both had very similar views with respect to how officers should conduct themselves. And after more than 30 years of policing, Insp. Butler (who as a use of force expert is not afraid to say when police force was unjustified) still demonstrates outward respect for the presumption of innocence and the judicial process.

The core of my compliment read as follows:

While I have very little knowledge of Inspector Butler’s career in policing, I am nevertheless prepared to say that his action in speaking out to defend those critical of recent police-involved shootings may prove to be one of his greatest accomplishments as an officer of the law.

His column will not garner any actual awards and in reality its text will likely be quickly forgotten by most. But at a time of critical importance in the shaping of the CPS as an organization that will continue to serve my children, and one day their children, Butler’s column has normalized and legitimized critical debate while simultaneously undermining an “us versus them” mentality that is antithetical to legitimate modern day community policing.

It is extremely short-sighted to think that silence, or worse yet mindless support of all police all the time, is somehow a more respectable approach or one that leads to better policing outcomes for officers and the community at large.

We all need to keep in mind that open and strong criticism of police is an important part of keeping their powers (given to them by the citizenry) in check. And as suggested by Inspector Butler, such criticism is not inherently anti-police at all. As such, I encourage everyone here to continue to question and challenge what appears to be bad police conduct.

But also, if you can take the time to publish accounts of bad experiences you have had, then make sure you also take time to submit formal compliments for the good experiences. It matters to the individual officers as people trying to do the right thing to know that it had a positive impact to a citizen; and formally it matters to their chances for promotion.

Perhaps most importantly, reinforcing the positive experiences as often as possible has the biggest chance of spreading such conduct throughout the service from the bottom up. And in the end, the goal ought to be to improve our police service even when we are harshly criticizing the conduct of one or more of its members.

The official compliment form can be found here:

http://www.calgary.ca/cps/Pages/Publ...ry-Police.aspx

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by MBates

But also, if you can take the time to publish accounts of bad experiences you have had, then make sure you also take time to submit formal compliments for the good experiences. It matters to the individual officers as people trying to do the right thing to know that it had a positive impact to a citizen; and formally it matters to their chances for promotion.

Perhaps most importantly, reinforcing the positive experiences as often as possible has the biggest chance of spreading such conduct throughout the service from the bottom up. And in the end, the goal ought to be to improve our police service even when we are harshly criticizing the conduct of one or more of its members.

Not even just to the officers. It makes most emergency responders day when someone calls up with a compliment. Just today I had someone call up to compliment the officers they dealt with at a different time. General complimentary messages get sent around, and who knows who needs it at that time. I've had some well timed general compliments help me out as well.

It's so easy to get mired only in the negative. Seeing some positive has never not helped.

[calgaryblood]

I've also submitted a compliment to the professional standards unit. There was a break in at my house and the officer who responded was one of the nicest, most genuinely caring officers who I've ever encountered. All compliments are forwarded to the superior and it makes a difference when it comes to promotions and stuff like that. There are definitely some great officers out there which is why we should speak out against the bad ones as well because it gives the good ones a bad image by the general public.

[Weitz]

Did they take finger prints to determine who was leaving the bags?!?

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Did they take finger prints to determine who was leaving the bags?!?

This was way before the creepy bag incidents.

[Weitz]

So what your saying is he is likely in on it?

[Weitz]

Ruh Roh

http://globalnews.ca/news/3404590/ca...ion-of-events/

A Calgary man is leveling some serious allegations against the Calgary Police Service regarding injuries he allegedly sustained during a traffic stop on the evening of March 8.

Daniel Joyce said he was driving home through the intersection at 52 Street and Castleridge Boulevard NE when he saw flashing lights behind him. He said he pulled over on Castleridge Boulevard, heading west, near the bus stop.


“I put my car in neutral and pulled the handbrake and opened the window,” Joyce said. “He says to me, ‘get out of your car, right now.’ Like real loud. And I went, ‘how come?’ Next thing I know, the door flew open and he punched me.”

“Next thing I know, they’re pulling me out. I was on the ground, from what I can remember, and my foot was caught between the pedals. The car did rev up. I heard that. But my foot was caught on the pedal, of course.”

Joyce said he was repeatedly punched in the face and between his legs. He said his glasses were broken.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Ruh Roh

http://globalnews.ca/news/3404590/ca...ion-of-events/

The Calgary Police Service issued the following statement Tuesday:

“The Calgary Police Service treats any allegation against a member extremely seriously. There are often two sides to a story and that is why we ensure that allegations are investigated thoroughly prior to discussing specific details in the media. However, the version of events we currently have is very different from that being portrayed by this individual – hence the importance of a thorough investigation. One thing we can confirm is that this is not a case of mistaken identity, the individual was known to CPS and was arrested as part of an ongoing ALERT investigation. While we cannot give details on this specific case, the use of force used by members is generally dictated by the actions of the individual we are dealing with.”

This is a situation where I would like to know both sides prior to me jumping all over the CPS.

An investigation is needed into this event (one concern is if the investigation will be non-biased to both sides).

[Boblobla]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Ruh Roh

http://globalnews.ca/news/3404590/ca...ion-of-events/

Situations like this are where body cameras are extremely useful. We have CPS coming out and saying they do not agree with the claims but unless there is footage, it is a he said, she said type of situation.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Boblobla

Situations like this are where body cameras are extremely useful. We have CPS coming out and saying they do not agree with the claims but unless there is footage, it is a he said, she said type of situation.

Very true, so it comes back to the 'Body Camera' angle.

But again, I read that guy's story and while its a hearsay argument, that sounds preposterous.

It just sounds ludicrous that the Police would pull a guy over, demand he get out of his car, haul him out and then just start beating the hell out of him for no perceivable reason.

[underGRADFlame]

Originally Posted by Boblobla

Situations like this are where body cameras are extremely useful. We have CPS coming out and saying they do not agree with the claims but unless there is footage, it is a he said, she said type of situation.

It's it very likely there is In Car Video for this, which is likely why CPS says the story differs from the mans account.