Arena Negotiation Discussion v2

[Reggie Dunlop]

A deal's a deal. No going to the war room in Toronto on this one.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Are you singling our our ownership group? So the model that’s been in place for other teams/cities should not apply to our owners because why?

No, I'm against public funding for sports owners play toys in general. We're but one example. But it happening in cities all over the world doesn't make it not practical here. It makes it routine for ownership groups to force cities to bend over to their demands and then use that free capital they acquire to charge more money and generate more revenue for....themselves.

It's one of the most ludicrous things around, but the US kind of set the precedent by putting sports entertainment and the owners stadiums/arenas above pretty much any civic need.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by The Familia

Meanwhile Regina, REGINA of all places just built a brand new football stadium, has just proposed a new arena, and also have plans for a new minor baseball stadium! How is that possible? Our football stadium is dilapidated, our arena aging fast and unable to accommodate many shows, and our baseball stadium is abandoned and empty. Oh, and we still don’t have a field house after 50 years, not to mention Glenmore Park and Foothills Park are both dumps with aging and outdated infrastructure and facilities. While we are at it, let’s not forget that most, if not all, of our Olympic facilities are at the end of their lifespan (bobsled track), need Reno’s (oval), or about to be demolished (ski jump towers). Calgary is so far behind in sporting infrastructure it’s laughable.

A few facts.
1. Mosaic Stadium cost $278M and was paid for by:
- Roughriders $25M
- Province of Saskatchewan $80M
- City of Regina $73M
- Loan taken by City of Regina $100M that will end up costing $176.5M

2. The new Pats owners have discussed wanting a new arena but nothing formal has been prepared. The city doesn’t have funds to provide. They still have 28 years left on the Mosaic loan.

3. The 3500 seat baseball stadium has been proposed by the club owners to go on city owned land and to cost $20-$25M with $5M paid by the club. There have been no formal discussions in council.

4. Regina sucks.

[jayswin]

We were generally a bit better in Canada, but Darryl Katz bent Edmonton over in embarrassing fashion and has now set a new precedent. Thankfully Calgary didn't bend over quite as badly, but I still don't like it.

[InglewoodFan]

I understand contracting for CNRL is onerous and fraught with legal intrigue, I wonder if Murray Edwards wants to bring his scorched earth style to this project?

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by InglewoodFan

I understand contracting for CNRL is onerous and fraught with legal intrigue, I wonder if Murray Edwards wants to bring his scorched earth style to this project?

I’m calling this out. Examples of this legal intrigue and scorched earth style please.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by CPK80

Because our property tax is half as much, and people still argue that it is too high.

City of Calgary Rate: ​0.0047795
City of Regina Rate: 0.00912132

You know those two numbers are meaningless without average property value and what services (water/garbage especially) are included.

[calgarywinning]

Originally Posted by CPK80

Mill rate is a fair way to compare tax rates... Yes there is more than that but it is a simple and quick comparison, yes houses are cheaper in Regina but also the cost of delivering services would be cheaper (Employee Wages would be lower) in Regina.


If you own a $500,000 in Calgary you would pay 2,389.75 a year
If you own a $500,000 in Regina you would pay 4,557.60 a year

The formula is

fair market value of all properties (assessment) x mill rate = city budget

a * b = budget

a is established first, then city budget then the mill rate is set. You are making a comparison on one value. To make a valid comparison you would need to correlate a*b=budget per capita or some other way to even begin to compare a city mill rate. It's math, i'm not saying that Regina is paying huge property tax and can build arena's, i'm just saying mill rate is not a comparison.

Just based on population alone calgary fair market value is over a five time multiple to Regina.

[dino7c]

lol this thread...city backing out on the deal was cool

oh wait the Flames are backing out...we had a deal god damn it!

[Torture]

The Flames reportedly want
$70M more from the city.
More land
Control of traffic
Remove CMLC as project manager

Are you ####ing kidding me? Talk about negotiating in bad faith.
https://beta.ctvnews.ca/local/calgar...1_5387513.html

[sfpipes]

I’ll preface my post by saying I don’t live in Calgary, so I am in no way tied to this deal as anything but a Flames fan.

With that said, if the Flames are trying to change the deal to benefit themselves, that obviously is pretty crappy. However, without more information as to the nature of these requests/demands, I won’t set my feet on either side of the issue. I’m sure there will be a lot to come out over the next little while. We’ve obviously had our first leak, I’m assuming you will hear further leaks from all sides and will be able to get a clearer picture of what’s going on. Until then put me in the, not surprised at the delay, but interested in what happens over the next few weeks camp.

[calf]

Originally Posted by Torture

The Flames reportedly want
$70M more from the city.
More land
Control of traffic
Remove CMLC as project manager

Are you ####ing kidding me? Talk about negotiating in bad faith.
https://beta.ctvnews.ca/local/calgar...1_5387513.html

Lol...CSEC can get bent.

[browna]

Originally Posted by calf

Lol...CSEC can get bent.

I'll wait to hear both sides.

Convenient that someone not allowed to talk leaks out one side of things so soon. Especially as and/or because this is once again a political and election issue and one side or candidate may be firing off an initial salvo to start the PR process in their favor.

My guess is Nenshi knew this was coming when he made his announcement last week.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by calf

Lol...CSEC can get bent.

If their goal was to get whatever remaining people that were onboard with this deal (I think it was a garbage deal for the City to subsidize any of this, with that trickle-down economics crap, in the first place) to reconsider, then they’re succeeding.

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by Torture

The Flames reportedly want
$70M more from the city.
More land
Control of traffic
Remove CMLC as project manager

[Cappy]

The two (as of now) leading candidates to replace Nenshi both voted against the original Flames deal.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Cappy

The two (as of now) leading candidates to replace Nenshi both voted against the original Flames deal.

Well we just need to determine where the angry winds are blowing to determine where Farkas stands on it now.

Which stance can he grandstand the hardest on?

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Cappy

The two (as of now) leading candidates to replace Nenshi both voted against the original Flames deal.

Farkas and who?

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Bonded

Farkas and who?

Gondek

EDIT - i think she voted for it so im wrong

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by Cappy

Gondek

I think she voted for it