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Old 07-31-2021, 04:53 PM   #1881
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Lol don't do this to us
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Old 07-31-2021, 04:54 PM   #1882
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The prophecy... it was not true...
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Old 07-31-2021, 04:55 PM   #1883
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Don't give me hope.

Or do.
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Old 07-31-2021, 04:55 PM   #1884
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The prophecy... it was not true...
Maybe it happened and we just don't know yet?
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Old 07-31-2021, 04:55 PM   #1885
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Don't give me hope.

Or do.
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Old 07-31-2021, 05:00 PM   #1886
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In terms of assets no Calgary cannot match what other teams CAN offer. Who knows what they actually will offer, but these are likely the assets BUFFALO would definitely prefer. Calgary has no high end prospects to offer that other teams can. If you're trading one of the top players in the game then those are the assets you're likely targeting. But as I already mentioned in my post Buffalo's asking price may be too high for these teams which may allow Calgary to be in the running. I never said Calgary has no skin in the game.

And you basically just proved my point. Anaheim and LA will likely have much higher 1st round picks so why would Buffalo want Calgary's 1st before Anaheim or LA's? I personally think those teams should just gradually continue their rebuilds, but that doesn't change the fact that they have more attractive assets that Buffalo would prefer.

Calgary has no top prospect to offer. They most likely don't have a top 5-10 pick. Their top player to trade Tkachuk has very limited control. These are just facts. I'm not saying Calgary has no shot at Eichel because I for one really hope it happens, but the only way I see Tre landing Eichel is if basically every other team backs out or isn't willing to part with some of their top assets. At which time if I was Buffalo I'd wait because...

Monahan
Dube
Pelletier
1st

This is a horrendous package if I'm Buffalo. If Treliving could pull this off I would be over the moon. Monahan is being run out of town here. Just had by far the worst season of his career and only has 2 years left until UFA. Dube is a 3rd liner. Pelletier has proven nothing yet and doesn't project to be a top line player. The 1st could easily be 15-20 range. Buffalo could easily walk away with next to nothing with that package for a top player in the league.

I think the Flames 100% have a shot at Eichel but I'd be shocked if that's the package to get him. That would be an absolute fleecing.

Horrendous? Just no.
Young middle six, a top six center who score and is contracted, as well as an extremely promising young Center and a first. Long way from horrendous. Just an absolute de valuation of Monahan.
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Old 07-31-2021, 05:05 PM   #1887
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Stupid Fake Friedman account got me for a sec. Trolls be circling.
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Old 07-31-2021, 05:05 PM   #1888
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The prophecy... it was not true...
Cancel the parade
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Old 07-31-2021, 05:10 PM   #1889
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Stupid Fake Friedman account got me for a sec. Trolls be circling.
Yeah I saw that tweet too.
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Old 07-31-2021, 05:17 PM   #1890
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And Eichel completely #### the bed against a much inferior Providence team, doing nothing in the final game to be a difference maker. There is a pattern with Jack, and its not a great one. Eichel is not a big game player. He likes to consider himself a big game player, but he rarely shows up when it matters. I guess that would make him the perfect linemate for Matthew Tkachuk. All talk, but no game when the chips are down. Be careful what you ask for. You may not like the outcome.
So providence go to the final as a bad team? They beat the number 1 ranked Miami, and followed that up with a big win over Denver.

If you watched that game or looked up that roster providence had noel accarri, Brandon Tanev, and of course the three flames prospects that were playing out of their mind. On top of that Jack Eichel was 18 when most players were 20 to 21. Accarri was 23, Brandon Tanev was 22 and jankowski was 21 and their game plan was to strictly impede Eichel. They were 3 to 5 years older than him. But sure he just didn't show up. You should watch the video of the tying goal in that game and tell me that was Eichel fault.

Let's just discredit Eichel for getting the primary assist on the game winner against yale, and getting 2 goals and an assist against north Dakota just to get to the finals. But I guess those weren't big games... because he never shows up in any big games.
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Old 07-31-2021, 05:35 PM   #1891
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If the Flames aren't in on Eichel, then they should be. History shows that great teams have a super star centre, an elite D on the top pair, and a top goalie. That isn't an opinion. Here is the top player in every position for the SC winners since the cap was introduced (draft spot in brackets):
  • 2021 TBL: Stamkos (1) | Hedman (2) | Vasilevskiy (19)
  • 2020 TBL: Point (79) | Hedman (2) | Vasilevskiy (19)
  • 2019 STL: O'Reilly (33) | Pietrangelo (4) | Binnington (88)
  • 2018 WSH: Backstrom(4) | Carlson (27) | Holtby (93)
  • 2017 PIT: Crosby (1) | Letang (62) | Fleury (1)
  • 2016 PIT: Crosby (1) | Letang (62) | Murray (83)
  • 2015 CHI: Toews (3) | Keith (54) | Crawford (52)
  • 2014 LA: Kopitar (11) | Doughty (2) | Quick (72)
  • 2013 CHI: Toews (3) | Keith (54) | Crawford (52)
  • 2012 LA: Kopitar (11) | Doughty (2) | Quick (72)
  • 2011 BOS: Bergeron (45) | Chara (56) | Thomas (217)
  • 2010 CHI: Toews (3) | Keith (54) | Niemi (Undrafted)
  • 2009 PIT: Crosby (1) | Gonchar (14) | Fleury (1)
  • 2008 DET: Datsyuk (171) | Lidstrom (53) | Osgood (54)
  • 2007 ANA: Getzlaf (19) | Pronger (2) | Giguere (13)
  • 2006 CAR: Staal (2) | Kaberle (76) | Ward (25)

There are very few exceptions to the rule of having an elite C, D, and G.
  • Stamkos has been in and out of the line up and has spent time at wing, leaving Point as the common top C in Tampa. But Tampa is one of the deepest teams in the modern NHL era.
  • St Louise doesn't have a stereotypical NHL team, but I see them as an anomaly (something their record pre and post SC win confirms).
  • A few of the goalies weren't super stars. But they had very deep teams in front of them.

I don't know if Markstrom is good enough to bring a team through the playoffs, but he is a legitimate NHL starter and the best we are going to get barring a breakthrough from one of the young guys.

We also don't have a D that belongs on that list following Gio's departure, but maybe one of the kids are going to take the step forward. Its unlikely, but not impossible.

What we absolutely don't have is a C that belongs on that list. Not on the team and not in the system. In the modern NHL it is almost impossible to find these guys outside of the top draft spots. Eichel is a rare opportunity to bring on one of these players outside of the draft. Barring being the next once in two decades anomalies, if the Flames want to compete for a cup in the next few seasons this is their best bet. If it costs us some picks, or one of the zillion wingers we have on the team / in the system then so be it.
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Old 07-31-2021, 05:40 PM   #1892
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If the Flames aren't in on Eichel, then they should be...
But based on every report the Flames ARE in on Eichel.

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Old 07-31-2021, 05:40 PM   #1893
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All you Eicheloholics are tiring…
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Old 07-31-2021, 05:43 PM   #1894
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All you Eicheloholics are tiring…
I dunno dude. I think clicking on this thread might be what's tiring you out - not the contents inside it.
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Old 07-31-2021, 05:45 PM   #1895
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If the Flames aren't in on Eichel, then they should be. History shows that great teams have a super star centre, an elite D on the top pair, and a top goalie. That isn't an opinion. Here is the top player in every position for the SC winners since the cap was introduced (draft spot in brackets):
I agree they should be, but Idk if I would say that list is more than an opinion. Definitely some guys that you could debate whether they’re “superstar” or “elite” and other guys were only at that level for a short period. You do have to consider how views change or perception is cemented with a player after that win a cup.
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Old 07-31-2021, 06:07 PM   #1896
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Originally Posted by kehatch View Post
If the Flames aren't in on Eichel, then they should be. History shows that great teams have a super star centre, an elite D on the top pair, and a top goalie. That isn't an opinion. Here is the top player in every position for the SC winners since the cap was introduced (draft spot in brackets):
  • 2021 TBL: Stamkos (1) | Hedman (2) | Vasilevskiy (19)
  • 2020 TBL: Point (79) | Hedman (2) | Vasilevskiy (19)
  • 2019 STL: O'Reilly (33) | Pietrangelo (4) | Binnington (88)
  • 2018 WSH: Backstrom(4) | Carlson (27) | Holtby (93)
  • 2017 PIT: Crosby (1) | Letang (62) | Fleury (1)
  • 2016 PIT: Crosby (1) | Letang (62) | Murray (83)
  • 2015 CHI: Toews (3) | Keith (54) | Crawford (52)
  • 2014 LA: Kopitar (11) | Doughty (2) | Quick (72)
  • 2013 CHI: Toews (3) | Keith (54) | Crawford (52)
  • 2012 LA: Kopitar (11) | Doughty (2) | Quick (72)
  • 2011 BOS: Bergeron (45) | Chara (56) | Thomas (217)
  • 2010 CHI: Toews (3) | Keith (54) | Niemi (Undrafted)
  • 2009 PIT: Crosby (1) | Gonchar (14) | Fleury (1)
  • 2008 DET: Datsyuk (171) | Lidstrom (53) | Osgood (54)
  • 2007 ANA: Getzlaf (19) | Pronger (2) | Giguere (13)
  • 2006 CAR: Staal (2) | Kaberle (76) | Ward (25)

There are very few exceptions to the rule of having an elite C, D, and G.
  • Stamkos has been in and out of the line up and has spent time at wing, leaving Point as the common top C in Tampa. But Tampa is one of the deepest teams in the modern NHL era.
  • St Louise doesn't have a stereotypical NHL team, but I see them as an anomaly (something their record pre and post SC win confirms).
  • A few of the goalies weren't super stars. But they had very deep teams in front of them.

I don't know if Markstrom is good enough to bring a team through the playoffs, but he is a legitimate NHL starter and the best we are going to get barring a breakthrough from one of the young guys.

We also don't have a D that belongs on that list following Gio's departure, but maybe one of the kids are going to take the step forward. Its unlikely, but not impossible.

What we absolutely don't have is a C that belongs on that list. Not on the team and not in the system. In the modern NHL it is almost impossible to find these guys outside of the top draft spots. Eichel is a rare opportunity to bring on one of these players outside of the draft. Barring being the next once in two decades anomalies, if the Flames want to compete for a cup in the next few seasons this is their best bet. If it costs us some picks, or one of the zillion wingers we have on the team / in the system then so be it.
Solid observation, but note that the vast majority of those players were drafted and/or developed by the teams cited above. Had those teams had to divest themselves of young assets to obtain those players, they probably don't have nearly the rosters they did when they won the cup.

I feel everyone's pain in watching the Flames circle mediocrity, but they just seem to be repeating the cycle of chasing. Chasers by definition don't maintain success. Acquiring a healthy Eichel clearly makes the Flames better in the short term, but is that going to be enough to get past Colorado, Vegas, or any number of teams in the East? I don't know. I would certainly hope so, but if it isn't the cost to acquire Eichel will probably propel the Flames back to the league stone ages in 3-4 years.

Be careful what we ask for as fans. A few years ago many mocked Carolina focusing on the future, and two years ago Ottawa was a butt of jokes, but those tides have quickly turned. I'm not saying Carolina or Ottawa are cup bound, but they are young, exciting teams, who are not in a position where they have to chase short term success in order to validate roster construction.

We shall see how this plays out, but I can see more negative outcomes in acquiring Eichel, than the positive of winning the cup.
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Old 07-31-2021, 06:14 PM   #1897
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Chances the Flames aquire Eichel... 0.1%
Chances I’ll be upset when the Flames don’t aquire Eichel...100%
That is life of a Flames fan
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Old 07-31-2021, 06:15 PM   #1898
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We shall see how this plays out, but I can see more negative outcomes in acquiring Eichel, than the positive of winning the cup.
The crazy thing is, some people seem to want to acquire Eichel because they think he'll fail and the team will crash and burn. It seems they'd rather have a perpetually horrible team, like Buffalo or Arizona, than an average one.
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Old 07-31-2021, 06:25 PM   #1899
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The crazy thing is, some people seem to want to acquire Eichel because they think he'll fail and the team will crash and burn. It seems they'd rather have a perpetually horrible team, like Buffalo or Arizona, than an average one.
He doesn't have to fail for the Flames to not win the cup, but if a heavy cost is paid to obtain Jack Eichel it will be hard to argue the cost was worth it. The Stars won with Nieuwendyk, but if they didn't I sure bet fans would have looked at the cost being Iginla in a far different light. It's the chance you take.
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Old 07-31-2021, 06:28 PM   #1900
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Chances the Flames aquire Eichel... 0.1%
Based on what, exactly?

These attempts to quantify the probability are so annoying because they are totally arbitrary and not at all informative. Here is an equally valid assertion...

Chances the Flames aquire Eichel... 99.9%

How believable is either of these?

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