Official WWE/ECW/WCW/TNA talk, or whatever v2

[Maritime Q-Scout]

If done right winning the title on free TV can be a good thing.

Goldberg beating Hogan to win the title was stupid. There was enough build-up that it should have been on PPV. That was a forest through the trees moment for sure as Nitro was winning the Monday Night War (if I recall correctly).

Conversely, fans loved Mick Foley (still do) and to have him win the title on Raw put Raw over the top and was basically the turning point in the Monday Night War. Mankind v Rock for the title, having Bishoff tell everyone watching Nitro that Mankind wins the title so they switch over. Then with the crowd electric, outside interference, knowing Mankind wins but wondering how he pulls it off, all of a sudden you hear the glass break and out comes Stone Cold to one of the biggest pops in history. Yeah... that was smart move.

I'll admit I haven't watched AWE in weeks (months?) but Moxley v Omega basically knowing Omega will be the victor (or the swerve being Moxley retains) rather than just assuming Moxley retains might be enough for me to tune in and then start the habit of watching again.

That said the most it can be is a 4 3/4 star match... since it'll be in Jacksonville and not Tokyo.

[CaptainCrunch]

The Hogan Goldberg TV match was a sheer panic move, that backfired so badly if I remember. First of all, Bishop started losing his mind because the ratings had shifted on him and WWE was starting to win again. So they gave away a match that could have powered a huge PPV number. Second it gave Hogan huge political power because he made his losing conditional on Goldberg losing to him. Third of all they did the match at the Georgia Dome (I think), there was no fanfare or promotion so it was a poor house.

The oldest saying in wrestling is how can we make money. They failed on that side. The World Title Win eventually destroyed Goldberg as well.

Yeah, it wasn't Bish, It was Schivone with the asses in seats comments around Foley winning on that Raw. WCW was the biggest promoter on that match as 3/4 of their TV audience changed the channel as soon as he said that.

Foley phoned Tony after he heard about that comment because it legitimately hurt him that a friend would say that, and Schivone took the call in tears.

It was a huge backfire.

[SuperMatt18]

In the end I don't think that was the end of WCW though - the fingerpoke of Doom is what really hurt things I think.


The Hogan-Goldberg match is the huge spike up to the 6 rating share in August 98, and really for the months after that WCW was at about the save level they were at prior with ratings in the 5 range. WCW ratings were pretty much the same from June 97 until the end of 1998. They were losing to WWF but it really the WCW ratings weren't going down yet at that point, it was just WWF was really picking up momentum and new fans bringing the overall ratings between the two companies up as a whole.

The real downturn in WCW ratings started when fans finally turned their back on them in early 99 after they ended Goldberg's streak with the Stun Gun, had the fingerpoke of doom, and reunited the NWO faction.

I honestly think that was when fans thought "nothing is going to change at WCW" and gave up on the brand.

-The belt was back on Hogan.

-They had wasted the build of Nash vs Hogan which was going on for months with the two NWO factions fueding.

-Goldberg was really the only new star they had, and once the streak was over it had lost his intrigue. Then it was back to just the old guard again with the main storyline in the following months being Hogan vs Flair.

-And the WWF was showing real signs of change and being something different with the focus on Austin with guys like Mankind, The Rock, and HHH starting to evolve too.

[CaptainCrunch]

I remember watching WCW right up to its death because it became the best sitcom on TV.



One of the worst things that they did in WCW is they decided to turn Goldberg Heel, this was after they completely devalued their world championship.


Yeah the Finger poke of doom was devastating, The Goldberg raped Elizabeth accusation was worse, not just because of the accusation of rape (original story that they had to soften). But Goldberg was arrested and taken to a police station across the street from the arena, and it took him 2 hours to get back after he was released.


They burned out the belts and devalued them, they kept hotshopping heel turns and face turns to the point where the fans just gave up (Remember Buff Bagwells return from his broken neck, he could have been a huge baby face, but instead went heel and became the 500th member of the NWO).


We look fondly back on the attitude era, but it had a lot of tremendously bad booking as well, and WWE really went into a spiral after the death of wcw that they still really haven't recovered from.

[CaptainCrunch]

BTW that main event on Smackdown and the set up of KO against Roman Reigns is money. Love how they're basically using Uso in the Main Events at TV and preserving Reigns for PPV's.

[d_phaneuf]

AEW is gonna need to do title changes on dynamite with only 4 PPVs a year

[The Familia]

I’m forgetting, but what Happened on RAW in May of 1999 that drove the ratings up past 8? That is a massive number and I can’t remember what triggered that.

I’ve long dreamed of being the booker for WCW in the mid 1990’s. There was just so much talent and potential. It truly is remarkable how WCW died. They had everything in place to put WWF out of business and become what WWE is today but they fudged it.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by The Familia

I’m forgetting, but what Happened on RAW in May of 1999 that drove the ratings up past 8? That is a massive number and I can’t remember what triggered that.

I’ve long dreamed of being the booker for WCW in the mid 1990’s. There was just so much talent and potential. It truly is remarkable how WCW died. They had everything in place to put WWF out of business and become what WWE is today but they fudged it.

It wasn't just the bookers, it wasn't just Eric, or even Vince, though Russo was atrocious. It was the upper card talent that killed it, the refusal of them to give the younger talent the spotlight, and most of all, it was Hogan and Nash and Hall, that killed WCW. Hogan for his backstage games, Nash for booking it for his own amusement and protecting his buddies, and Hall for being a complete idiot at that time.


Even at the height of WCW with the NWO. The actual main event wrestling was atrociously bad, the guys in the main event couldn't work, and they kept hot shotting stuff. The mid card guys put on these awesome matches, and then Hogan had Eric book them into oblivion or made to look like idiots in the face of NWO.


Eventually the mid card guys gave up, the upper card guys didn't give a crap and the main event guys protected their spot. Even if you were a booker you wouldn't have been able to change the culture of the WCW locker room, and wouldn't ever be able to change the downward spiral of WCW. The minute that you put forward the idea of elevating talent into the main event spot or have the NWO lose their spots, you'd be looking for a job booking flights of rubber dog poop out of hong kong.


The biggest mistake in the end for WCW, was keeping Hogan, Nash, Hall in positions of power and beyond their best before label.



When you eventually have a main event of Hogan vs Warrior or Hogan vs Piper in the mid to late 90's you were doomed.

[CaptainCrunch]

https://prowrestling.fandom.com/wiki...ht_RAW_results


https://prowrestling.fandom.com/wiki...ht_RAW_results


https://prowrestling.fandom.com/wiki...ht_RAW_results


https://prowrestling.fandom.com/wiki...ht_RAW_results


It was probably the Owen Hart Tribute Show on May 24

[CMPunk]

According to Tony Khan, Mox won't be going to Japan. Kenta has been teasing something for tonight, but I'm not sure if AEW would allow a post match NJPW briefcase cash in. Could be something they do off air?

[KelVarnsen]

Pat Patterson has passed away

https://www.wwe.com/article/wwe-hall...on-passes-away

[CaptainCrunch]

One of the first openly gay wrestlers.


Had a great career, and later became a key backstage producer and advisor. Was one of the one stage stooges.



RIP

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by CMPunk

According to Tony Khan, Mox won't be going to Japan. Kenta has been teasing something for tonight, but I'm not sure if AEW would allow a post match NJPW briefcase cash in. Could be something they do off air?

I honestly feel like NJPW might be the ones that have more of a concern than AEW.

I had thought it was AEW that was open to more of a partnership, and it was NJPW that wasn't as open to it.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Originally Posted by The Familia

I’m forgetting, but what Happened on RAW in May of 1999 that drove the ratings up past 8? That is a massive number and I can’t remember what triggered that.

I’ve long dreamed of being the booker for WCW in the mid 1990’s. There was just so much talent and potential. It truly is remarkable how WCW died. They had everything in place to put WWF out of business and become what WWE is today but they fudged it.

Here's the results of that episode:

https://prowrestling.fandom.com/wiki...0the%20Stunner.

WWF World Champion Steve Austin, The Rock, & Vince McMahon defeated the Undertaker, Triple H (w/ Chyna), & Shane McMahon at 4:38 when Austin defeated Shane with the Stunner.

Moments earlier, Austin hit the Stunner on Shane and a dazed Vince made the cover, only for Austin to pull him off and hit a second Stunner on Shane before making the cover himself.

Shawn Michaels was the guest referee for the bout.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by Sidney Crosby's Hat

Here's the results of that episode:

https://prowrestling.fandom.com/wiki...0the%20Stunner.

Also on that show:

Pat Patterson & Gerald Brisco defeated Rodney & Pete Gas at 2:09 when Rodney submitted to Brisco's figure-4 as Gas submitted to Patterson's Boston Crab.
Patterson & Brisco used "Real American" as their theme music.
Due to pre-match stipulations, Rodney & Gas were forced to leave the WWF.
If Brisco & Patterson had lost, they would have had to leave.

and

Monica Seles was in attendance for the event.

and how could we forget?:

Featured a Steve Blackman vignette.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I honestly feel like NJPW might be the ones that have more of a concern than AEW.

I had thought it was AEW that was open to more of a partnership, and it was NJPW that wasn't as open to it.

That was back when Harold Meji was still in charge. They're supposedly more open to it now that he's gone.

AEW (and NXT to a lesser extent) must be thanking their lucky stars that NBC flexed the NFL to this afternoon.

[Muta]

So, uh... who knew that AEW's Winter Is Coming PPV would really Sting....

[SuperMatt18]

Honestly I don’t know if I’m a fan of bringing him in.

Feels like the same path that TNA went down that ruined what made that show unique.

AEW already feels like WCW too much at times.

Edit: Right after I type that it was a very WCW finish to the main event, with what seems to be an invasion angle. Seems too soon for that IMO.

[CMPunk]

Well I didn't see either of those coming, but I was pleasantly surprised by both.


Can't wait for Tuesday

[Muta]

Yeah I'm not sure what benefit it is to be doing a crossover with Impact, which is very much less popular than AEW to begin with. This would have had much more (sorry for the pun) impact if this was an NJPW double-cross. Would have made WAY more sense for a bunch of reasons, including a renewed feud with Okada.