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Old 10-23-2017, 07:10 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by WhiteTiger View Post
This part I can see. This will be an interesting conversation with AMA.



Was he, though? He was presented with a different payment option. He was not forced to take this option, it was presented as an option. At a cutout here, he could have said "No thank you, I'm sticking with AMA only".



As mentioned above, he's not yet been frauded since he doesn't know if his policy will cover the tow or not. His reading/interpretation of his policy (long after the incident) appears to say that he may not be. But he may call up his insurance company today, they'll listen and go "Yeah, you are totally covered. Just send over the receipt, sorry for the issues over the weekend." From my understanding of his story the driver presented this option as a different way to pay, but because he was not able to contact his company to speak about his policy properly, he didn't know if he was actually covered or not...and when he was paying for it, he did so gambling on the HOPE that his insurance would cover it, not based strongly on the knowledge that they WOULD cover it. He was in no way misled about the price of the service he received. He just took a gamble on who ends up paying for it.



Yup. But keep in mind that they are not at fault here. They provided the service that they were supposed to. It is not their fault or responsibility that the driver provided an other option and their client took it. He had several 'outs' that he could have taken, but kept deciding to go in a different direction. This is not AMA's fault.



That would be an interesting court case, I think. The OP was provided a service, given a price, and paid for the service. He wasn't misled as to the price he was paying for the service he received, he just wasn't sure his insurance would cover it. I have a feeling that this case would go against the OP.



I just kinda shake my head at this. I also wonder where the FTA would come into play and if it would. Again, could be an interesting court case about who's responsible for what. From my read of the OP, it seems like the OP made a handful of compounding bad choices, and that this is likely to end up being a $1300 lesson.



I still think his best bet is in talking to AMA about the behaviour of their subcontracted company. Given how good AMA is usually about these sorts of things, I can see him getting his money back and the contractor getting dropped or 'on warning'.
AMA and the tow truck driver are the same entity.

So a representive for AMA when faced with a claim against their insurance recommended their client claim against a different insurance company even though they did not know if their advice was correct. I'd agree that if his insurance does pay their is no issue if his insurance doesn't pay and AMA doesn't refund immediately I think that Corral's arguments stand. They provide expertise they didn't have in order to reduce their exposure to a claim.
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Old 10-23-2017, 07:22 AM   #42
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Was this Standish out of Banff?
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Old 10-23-2017, 08:00 AM   #43
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Just like a taxi except you have to wait 2 hours and you get to ride in a tow truck
So you mean to say just like a taxi except you get to ride in a tow truck.?
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Old 10-23-2017, 08:07 AM   #44
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lol provisions under the Alberta fair trading act? Omg you guys are cranking this up to 11 way too soon. My guess is this is sorted out with a phone call to AMA.

Don't really understand how you let a guy run through $1300 on your credit card when you could have handed him your AMA card and it would have been free.
Consumer in a vulnerable position somehow finds himself having paid $1,300 for a service that should have been $0 after some fast-talking by service provider (taking OP at face value).

Consumer protection legislation and a whole government department exists to assist people in such circumstances.

Consumer comes to message board asking if anyone can help.

Lawyer who has experience with such matters directs consumer to said resources.

"Lol" "Omg"

Ok then.

I wonder if when consumer makes a call to AMA, knowing what his rights are under the provisions of Alberta's Fair Trading Act could be helpful?

Nah, consumer should probably just stick with the knowledge and negotiating skill they had when they paid $1,300 for a supposed to be free service.

You are right. My mistake. OP - whatever you do, don't crank this up to 11 and do something foolish like click that link I posted...

And nobody else either! The Fair Trading Act applies to almost every consumer contract you enter every day in Alberta...best to make sure you know nothing about it.

Phew! That was a close one!!
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Old 10-23-2017, 08:12 AM   #45
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I know when I pay yearly for a towing service my first instinct is to not use it and pay the tow truck out of pocket.

I can't really distinguish how you were convinced this was a good idea.
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Old 10-23-2017, 08:45 AM   #46
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Ya - thats not at all how contracts or the law works. The guy offered to have them charge it to their credit card and they accepted. If they were at all unsure of the coverage they should have declined, as others have mentioned, and just charged it to AMA.

AMA is not at all responsible, but knowing they're a good company, they will likely do something about it - while I agree it is somewhat shady practice on the drivers part, it is totally legal and no one forced them to agree to anything. I think the OP is aware they made a bad choice.
If only there was legislation governing consumer contracts that made it illegal to engage in shady business practices. Like some kind of Act that would make Trading more Fair.

All kidding aside, the Fair Trading Act prohibits a number of business practices that likely happen regularly. If you read section 6 of the act you might be surprised how many things are not "totally legal" in a consumer transaction in Alberta.
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Old 10-23-2017, 08:49 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by MBates View Post
Consumer in a vulnerable position somehow finds himself having paid $1,300 for a service that should have been $0 after some fast-talking by service provider (taking OP at face value).

Consumer protection legislation and a whole government department exists to assist people in such circumstances.

Consumer comes to message board asking if anyone can help.

Lawyer who has experience with such matters directs consumer to said resources.

"Lol" "Omg"

Ok then.

I wonder if when consumer makes a call to AMA, knowing what his rights are under the provisions of Alberta's Fair Trading Act could be helpful?

Nah, consumer should probably just stick with the knowledge and negotiating skill they had when they paid $1,300 for a supposed to be free service.

You are right. My mistake. OP - whatever you do, don't crank this up to 11 and do something foolish like click that link I posted...

And nobody else either! The Fair Trading Act applies to almost every consumer contract you enter every day in Alberta...best to make sure you know nothing about it.

Phew! That was a close one!!
I think you would sound like an absolute idiot if you started flapping around about The Fair Trading Act when there were at least three other more sensible options to explore before. First step is to call AMA. It probably ends there. Second step is to call the tow truck company. Third step is to call insurance company.

Calling the news. Calling The Fair Trading Act. He's not there yet.

Genuine question: If he called the government about this, do you not think their first bit of advice would be to contact AMA and the tow truck company? I'm not a lawyer and have never been in OP's predicament, but it seems obvious that's step one.
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Old 10-23-2017, 09:14 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by Sliver View Post
I think you would sound like an absolute idiot if you started flapping around about The Fair Trading Act when there were at least three other more sensible options to explore before. First step is to call AMA. It probably ends there. Second step is to call the tow truck company. Third step is to call insurance company.

Calling the news. Calling The Fair Trading Act. He's not there yet.

Genuine question: If he called the government about this, do you not think their first bit of advice would be to contact AMA and the tow truck company? I'm not a lawyer and have never been in OP's predicament, but it seems obvious that's step one.
I made no mention whatsoever of calling the news. Calling a government service provider that has people who help resolve these problems is not in any way the same as calling the news in my opinion.

Will Service Alberta recommend calling the AMA and the tow truck company? They probably will. Based on experience I expect that would be after discussing with the caller what the Fair Trading Act covers and what their rights and protections are under the Act...so that he knows what to ask for and what he's talking about before making those calls.

I never said don't call AMA or the tow company to sort it out. Why do you see knowing what the actual law and rules applying to this situation before calling is something only a 'flapping' idiot would do?

Sorry I find that very strange. It's cliche I suppose but knowledge is power.
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Old 10-23-2017, 09:30 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by MBates View Post
I made no mention whatsoever of calling the news. Calling a government service provider that has people who help resolve these problems is not in any way the same as calling the news in my opinion.

Will Service Alberta recommend calling the AMA and the tow truck company? They probably will. Based on experience I expect that would be after discussing with the caller what the Fair Trading Act covers and what their rights and protections are under the Act...so that he knows what to ask for and what he's talking about before making those calls.

I never said don't call AMA or the tow company to sort it out. Why do you see knowing what the actual law and rules applying to this situation before calling is something only a 'flapping' idiot would do?

Sorry I find that very strange. It's cliche I suppose but knowledge is power.
Because starting at step one, you will be talking with an AMA call centre agent. Maybe you'll get transferred to a manager, which is likely just a call centre agent with a little more experience. If you start talking to a step one person with step five comments, you'll confuse the process and end up sounding like one of those sovereign citizen idiots and getting nowhere. There are going to be some hoops to jump through to get his money back, but you really have to go in order or you are not helping yourself.

A call centre agent will (rightfully) roll their eyes and laugh at you if you start going on about The Fair Trading Act, at which point they're going to be less willing to help you out. I mean, maybe a lawyer could kind of get away with it, but as a layman, I know I would trip up and sound like a moron pretty quickly if I started arguing in terms of acts. I couldn't even define an "act" without Googling it and I would bet OP is in the same boat.

IDK, maybe you're ready with the big guns because you see these issues in your office once they've already escalated. I bet 99% get resolved with my approach long before they hit your desk, though.
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Old 10-23-2017, 09:46 AM   #50
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A bunch of stuff..
Yeah, you're coming off a bit harsh. OP asked said "Just trying to make the best out of the situation so any advice is welcome."

Mbates, from the sounds of it, has worlds of experience in this area. So why not provide the tools and info he knows about to help? There's already been lots of "Call AMA, call your insurance, call your credit card provider". Mbates is just letting him know that he has options on the legal side of things should he need it.

If I was OP, I'd be super appreciative to get that info, because I already feel like an idiot and now I have yet another route to follow in order to possibly undo this momentary lapse of judgement.
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Old 10-23-2017, 10:00 AM   #51
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I am a huge fan of personal accountability, and yes the OP should've just said thanks but no thanks to the tow trucks suggestion of using insurance instead.

However the driver should never have put him in the position of making that call. The driver made suggestions he shouldn't have based on information they didn't know (OP's insurance coverage). And I agree with the fact that the driver is in many ways a representative of AMA.

The tow company should just fix this on their own, as they are going to expose themselves to difficulty if they don't, either from AMA, the insurance company, or the fair trade act. I'd call them and if they don't fix it, then start with some gentle threats and start working up the food chain.

And getting MBates info is awesome, and provides the knowledge and leverage to apply as needed.
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Old 10-23-2017, 10:01 AM   #52
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Yeah, you're coming off a bit harsh. OP asked said "Just trying to make the best out of the situation so any advice is welcome."

Mbates, from the sounds of it, has worlds of experience in this area. So why not provide the tools and info he knows about to help? There's already been lots of "Call AMA, call your insurance, call your credit card provider". Mbates is just letting him know that he has options on the legal side of things should he need it.

If I was OP, I'd be super appreciative to get that info, because I already feel like an idiot and now I have yet another route to follow in order to possibly undo this momentary lapse of judgement.
Hey we all make mistakes and I'm trying not to to be harsh on the OP. I stand by I think MBates' advice is bad for this stage in the game, though.

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Service Alberta has Fair Trading Act investigators and caseworkers who will very likely assist you sorting this out. I would contact them ASAP:

http://www.servicealberta.gov.ab.ca/...-practices.cfm
He literally told the OP to contact investigators and caseworkers at Service Alberta (citing the Fair Trading Act) "ASAP" to help him sort this out. That's not checking out their site for background information - his advice is to get the government involved as soon as possible. Based on the original post, do you really agree with MBates that this is at the stage where investigators from the government need to intervene?

Last edited by Sliver; 10-23-2017 at 10:03 AM. Reason: oops, I said "trying to be harsh on the OP" when I meant "trying not to be harsh on the OP"
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Old 10-23-2017, 10:05 AM   #53
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I couldn't even define an "act" without Googling it and I would bet OP is in the same boat.
An "act" just means a law. For example, if you want to know the law on how corporations are formed in Alberta, you'd look at the "Alberta Corporations Act". The "Fair Trading Act" is the main law governing consumer relations and fairness in the province, though there are others.

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Old 10-23-2017, 10:05 AM   #54
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Hey we all make mistakes and I'm trying to to be harsh on the OP. I stand by I think MBates' advice is bad for this stage in the game, though.



He literally told the OP to contact investigators and caseworkers at Service Alberta (citing the Fair Trading Act) "ASAP" to help him sort this out. That's not checking out their site for background information - his advice is to get the government involved as soon as possible. Based on the original post, do you really agree with MBates that this is at the stage where investigators from the government need to intervene?
Really, what harm is going to come of calling them? At the very least OP gets to explain what happened, explain how dumb he feels, and ask for some guidance so that he doesn't wind up making this worse. OP already admits he feels like an idiot, so if there's an agency out there willing to hold his hand somewhat, great! Not all people are smooth talking rascal owners like you, so some extra help from an agency setup to deal with stuff like this is a great resource to use.
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Old 10-23-2017, 10:11 AM   #55
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Really, what harm is going to come of calling them? At the very least OP gets to explain what happened, explain how dumb he feels, and ask for some guidance so that he doesn't wind up making this worse. OP already admits he feels like an idiot, so if there's an agency out there willing to hold his hand somewhat, great! Not all people are smooth talking rascal owners like you, so some extra help from an agency setup to deal with stuff like this is a great resource to use.
but why not talk to AMA first and the insurance company? then if no satisfaction is obtained, then contact the government.

the advice is good, but not as a first step.
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Old 10-23-2017, 10:14 AM   #56
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Really, what harm is going to come of calling them? At the very least OP gets to explain what happened, explain how dumb he feels, and ask for some guidance so that he doesn't wind up making this worse. OP already admits he feels like an idiot, so if there's an agency out there willing to hold his hand somewhat, great! Not all people are smooth talking rascal owners like you, so some extra help from an agency setup to deal with stuff like this is a great resource to use.
Okay, this post did help my understand the perspective of getting help from the government a little better. I still think it's much simpler to just call AMA first; however, MBates' advice seems less outlandish to me now than it did originally.
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Old 10-23-2017, 10:23 AM   #57
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It's not unreasonable to want to get as much information as possible about your consumer rights before making the other calls, at least to know that you have a leg to stand on or not, before you talk to AMA/Insurance/Towing Company.

$1300 is quite a bit of money, so who cares if he escalates it all the way to 11 right off the bat?
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Old 10-23-2017, 10:54 AM   #58
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I'd like to hear the Tow Truck driver's point of view.
Hey OP, any chance you can get the tow truck driver to come on here and answer our questions? We can call it an AMA.

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Old 10-23-2017, 10:54 AM   #59
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Well that ended up being much ado about nothing. First call this morning was to my insurance provider. Sure enough it's covered under my policy. Sent in the receipt and I will apparently have the money in my account by the end of the week.

Thank you for all of the advice, even the "turn it up to 11" advice. I probably would not have escalated past contacting AMA and the tow company directly. I am well aware that I had a momentary lapse in judgment and made a dumb decision off some poor advice. I mostly just wanted some sort of improvement on the situation to feel a little less like an idiot.

One odd thing though... Another reason he mentioned going through insurance was so it doesn't use up one of your services from AMA (you get a limited amount per year). I just received an auto email from AMA asking for feedback on the roadside assistance I received. I am curious if they submitted an invoice to AMA as well and they are double-dipping. I am also curious if I have lost one of my services anyways. My AMA membership page only has history of services up to Aug 13.
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Old 10-23-2017, 11:00 AM   #60
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One odd thing though... Another reason he mentioned going through insurance was so it doesn't use up one of your services from AMA (you get a limited amount per year). I just received an auto email from AMA asking for feedback on the roadside assistance I received. I am curious if they submitted an invoice to AMA as well and they are double-dipping. I am also curious if I have lost one of my services anyways. My AMA membership page only has history of services up to Aug 13.
Well, you did contact them to ask them to send the truck in the first place. Doesn't seem unreasonable that they'd look to follow up to see how the service was, especially since it's a contractor truck.

I'd explain the story to them. It's something they likely would want to know about.
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