Climate change and human responsibility

[Azure]

Another reason CLT is the future and is the best chance of fighting this trend. Not only planting more trees, but moving towards more timber based construction to keep the carbon removed from the atmosphere.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/t...ange-1.5201102

The most effective way to fight global warming is to plant lots of trees, a trillion of them, maybe more, according to a new study.

Swiss scientists also say that even with existing cities and farmland, there's enough space for new trees to cover nine million square kilometres, roughly the size of the United States.

Their report is in Thursday's edition of the journal Science.

The study calculated that over the decades, those new trees could suck up nearly 750 billion tonnes of heat-trapping carbon dioxide from the atmosphere — about as much carbon pollution as humans have spewed in the past 25 years.

[Mass_nerder]

Originally Posted by Azure

Another reason CLT is the future and is the best chance of fighting this trend. Not only planting more trees, but moving towards more timber based construction to keep the carbon removed from the atmosphere.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/t...ange-1.5201102

Plus it makes prefabbed, modular construction so much easier and can drastically reduce the amount of construction waste.
Additionally, engineered wood (CLT, glulam etc...) has similar depth/span characteristics as steel, and can be used to replace traditional concrete cores.
It's legitimately one of the most exciting construction technologies right now.

[Azure]

I think they are selling themselves short with just wanting to plant a trillion trees. I think double that should be the goal once they start looking at other less appealing areas, and better forest management.

At the end of the day CLT allows you to take those trees and extend their lifespan in terms of sequestering carbon for much longer. Potentially decades longer. Suddenly you have 25% more trees actively sucking carbon or simply storing it without needing more area to actually plant the trees.

Bizarre that we aren't throwing money at this like a madman.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by Azure

Another reason CLT is the future and is the best chance of fighting this trend. Not only planting more trees, but moving towards more timber based construction to keep the carbon removed from the atmosphere.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/t...ange-1.5201102

This is a really cool idea. I'd be interested to know the cost of planting a trillion trees (including land acquisition etc.). I'm guessing it is substantial (ie, measured in trillions of dollars).

[Mass_nerder]

Originally Posted by Makarov

This is a really cool idea. I'd be interested to know the cost of planting a trillion trees (including land acquisition etc.). I'm guessing it is substantial (ie, measured in trillions of dollars).

I would imagine, in Canada at least, most of the land needed would be crown land (only 11% of Canada's land is privately owned, with 41% federal crown land and 48% provincial crown land) , so there probably wouldn't be a substantial cost for land acquisition.

[GoinAllTheWay]

Urban forests are just about the coolest things. I wish the city planted them everywhere they could. And it looks a hell of a lot better than most of the "art" the city as paid millions for. Use that money to buy trees instead.

[Azure]

I remember from my days in Alberta that the government provided saplings free of charge to private land owners who would then plant them.

There are many ways of doing it.

[GoinAllTheWay]

Agreed. It's cheap and easy to do. Everyone can help with a project like this. I'd like to see this take off.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Azure

Another reason CLT is the future and is the best chance of fighting this trend. Not only planting more trees, but moving towards more timber based construction to keep the carbon removed from the atmosphere.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/t...ange-1.5201102

A great idea, but let’s be realistic. That means planting one new tree for every single tree on the planet. Doesn’t seem possible. I think this is a great idea, but pragmatically not feasible. I think this could be part of the solution, but not the single bullet people are looking for. There is no single bullet, so we must consider all options.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by New Era

A great idea, but let’s be realistic. That means planting one new tree for every single tree on the planet. Doesn’t seem possible. I think this is a great idea, but pragmatically not feasible. I think this could be part of the solution, but not the single bullet people are looking for. There is no single bullet, so we must consider all options.

Plus you are contending with massive deforestation right now.

That being said I think you are selling the idea a bit short. There are massive tree planting operations going on right now throughout the world. We just need to organize more and allocate budgetary resources to make it move faster.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by GoinAllTheWay

Urban forests are just about the coolest things. I wish the city planted them everywhere they could. And it looks a hell of a lot better than most of the "art" the city as paid millions for. Use that money to buy trees instead.

This is an interesting idea as well.

Regulation to require roof top 'forests' should be in place in every city / building where it could work.

Would a lot with HVAC costs.

[Mass_nerder]

Originally Posted by Azure

This is an interesting idea as well.

Regulation to require roof top 'forests' should be in place in every city / building where it could work.

Would a lot with HVAC costs.

The problem is that an intensive green roof able to support trees needs to have ~1m of depth available above the roof deck, and would require a significant amount of upkeep.
I always see renderings of buildings with literal forests depicted growing from every horizontal surface, but the reality is it's just not really feasible.
Cities should, however, require new buildings to at minimum have a white roof surface, but strongly encourage an extensive green roof. It would equate to a large amount of energy saved, and would drastically reduce the urban heat island effect

[Fuzz]

Just browsing a couple charts here, and found something unexpected. For Calgary, these are number of days below -20 and over 30. Click the 10x to see maximum range for each. What I find interesting is that our climate has gotten more moderate, not more extreme, as we are constantly told. Fewer cold days, and fewer hot days. Going to check out a few more cities, as this is obviously unexpected.



https://calgary.weatherstats.ca/char...20-yearly.html


https://calgary.weatherstats.ca/char...30-yearly.html

[Fuzz]

So most cities in Canada show pretty flat +30 days, and a decline of -20 days, though not very extreme. Interestingly, Yellowknife and Whitehorse are pretty flat for days below zero, with a slight decrease in days below -20. Obviously the +30 days are a bit of a crapshoot, no pattern there.


So why are we being told climate is getting more extreme in Canada? Shouldn't these charts show some pattern that would justify that statement?

[troutman]

https://changingclimate.ca/CCCR2019/chapter/headline-statements/


[new report - Bush, E. and Lemmen, D.S., editors (2019): Canada’s Changing Climate Report; Government of Canada, Ottawa, ON. 444 p. - longer than the Mueller Report?]


Canada is warming - more extreme weather is predicted in the future, if not evident yet:

Canada’s climate has warmed and will warm further in the future, driven by human influence. Global emissions of carbon dioxide from human activity will largely determine how much warming Canada and the world will experience in the future, and this warming is effectively irreversible. {2.3, 3.3, 3.4, 4.2}

Both past and future warming in Canada is, on average, about double the magnitude of global warming. Northern Canada has warmed and will continue to warm at more than double the global rate. {2.2, 3.3, 4.2}

The effects of widespread warming are evident in many parts of Canada and are projected to intensify in the future. In Canada, these effects include more extreme heat, less extreme cold, longer growing seasons, shorter snow and ice cover seasons, earlier spring peak streamflow, thinning glaciers, thawing permafrost, and rising sea level. Because some further warming is unavoidable, these trends will continue. {4.2, 5.2, 5.3, 5.4, 5.5, 5.6, 6.2, 7.5}

A warmer climate will intensify some weather extremes in the future. Extreme hot temperatures will become more frequent and more intense. This will increase the severity of heatwaves, and contribute to increased drought and wildfire risks. While inland flooding results from multiple factors, more intense rainfalls will increase urban flood risks. It is uncertain how warmer temperatures and smaller snowpacks will combine to affect the frequency and magnitude of snowmelt-related flooding. {4.2, 4.3, 4.4, 5.2, 6.2}

[Azure]

See that is the thing to me. The CO2 levels are supposedly already at a HIGH point. Much higher than they should be.

So the only reasonable solution is to extract the CO2 from the atmosphere.

And the only solution to that specific problem is either planting a trillion trees or find a way to do it with man-made machines.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by troutman

https://changingclimate.ca/CCCR2019/...ne-statements/

Canada is warming - more extreme weather is predicted in the future, if not evident yet:

Canada’s climate has warmed and will warm further in the future, driven by human influence. Global emissions of carbon dioxide from human activity will largely determine how much warming Canada and the world will experience in the future, and this warming is effectively irreversible. {2.3, 3.3, 3.4, 4.2}

Both past and future warming in Canada is, on average, about double the magnitude of global warming. Northern Canada has warmed and will continue to warm at more than double the global rate. {2.2, 3.3, 4.2}

The effects of widespread warming are evident in many parts of Canada and are projected to intensify in the future. In Canada, these effects include more extreme heat, less extreme cold, longer growing seasons, shorter snow and ice cover seasons, earlier spring peak streamflow, thinning glaciers, thawing permafrost, and rising sea level. Because some further warming is unavoidable, these trends will continue. {4.2, 5.2, 5.3, 5.4, 5.5, 5.6, 6.2, 7.5}

A warmer climate will intensify some weather extremes in the future. Extreme hot temperatures will become more frequent and more intense. This will increase the severity of heatwaves, and contribute to increased drought and wildfire risks. While inland flooding results from multiple factors, more intense rainfalls will increase urban flood risks. It is uncertain how warmer temperatures and smaller snowpacks will combine to affect the frequency and magnitude of snowmelt-related flooding. {4.2, 4.3, 4.4, 5.2, 6.2}

But that's not what I'm seeing in these charts, that this statement is not true. We are seeing a decreasing trend in days over 30. It's easy to say these things, but where is the evidence?

[Fuzz]

So I just looked at that report, and as near as I can figure they have this example:


"The bottom panels show estimates of attributable warming for extreme temperatures, including (d) annual highest daily maximum temperature, (e) annual highest daily minimum temperature, (f) annual lowest daily maximum temperature, and (g) annual lowest daily minimum temperature."


which only looks at the increase in the hottest day, which is more of an anomaly than a trend, so doesn't tell us much. Figure 4.10 shows this:





I find this confusing, as it doesn't appear to show the same thing the data I looked at shows(panel C).

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

But that's not what I'm seeing in these charts, that this statement is not true. We are seeing a decreasing trend in days over 30. It's easy to say these things, but where is the evidence?

How is it not true? It is a future prediction. May not be evident now.

You ask a good question - as this summer seems pleasantly cooler and wetter in Southern Alberta than usual (so far - it is only July 8th).

All is not doom and gloom. I'm reading an interesting book now called "Enlightenment Now" - the thesis is that there is never been a better time to be a human being despite all the present problems we perceive. We have made amazing measurable progress in the last 100 years in so many spheres (health, poverty, peace). For example, it is conservatively estimated that medical science has saved over 5 billion lives. We have the means to address climate change too.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlightenment_Now

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Azure

I think they are selling themselves short with just wanting to plant a trillion trees. I think double that should be the goal once they start looking at other less appealing areas, and better forest management.

At the end of the day CLT allows you to take those trees and extend their lifespan in terms of sequestering carbon for much longer. Potentially decades longer. Suddenly you have 25% more trees actively sucking carbon or simply storing it without needing more area to actually plant the trees.

Bizarre that we aren't throwing money at this like a madman.

The problem with trees is that while young ones remove huge amounts of carbon, old and dead trees give it back through decay and fire. Canada’s forests are apparently currently a net source of CO2 with all the beetle kill etc,

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...urce-1.5011490