We had a guy come and speak at our high school who didn’t have arms, and drove there in his pickup truck. License plate said “Toes”. It was one of the most incredible things I’ve ever seen. Guy played the piano.
Alvin Law?
Guy also plays drums, and quite well. Truly a testament to the human will.
True story: In law school a friend and I did the Johnny Fever "take a shot, blow, repeat" test in a criminal law class with a tech from the police dept.
You know what? I honestly think this is something that should be taught.
I know that people who are drunk are going to make bad decisions regardless, but I genuinely believe that most people have no idea what 0.05 or 0.08 actually feels like.
If people were to sit down and drink and have someone reliable to tell them:
"Hey, this is 0.08, you're drunk. This is what it feels like."
It might give people a frame of reference to help make better decisions.
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It might give people a frame of reference to help make better decisions.
I'm not so convinced. I think it would just embolden people to make poor decisions under the influence - i.e., "Ok, I'm a little buzzed, but when I did that test I was drunker than this and I would have blown a .05... I'm good to drive."
How about if you're trying to figure out whether you're okay to drive, you just don't drive.
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I'm not so convinced. I think it would just embolden people to make poor decisions under the influence - i.e., "Ok, I'm a little buzzed, but when I did that test I was drunker than this and I would have blown a .05... I'm good to drive."
How about if you're trying to figure out whether you're okay to drive, you just don't drive.
Agreed. While it could be interesting to see what .05 and .08 feel like there's so many different factors that change day to day, it's not useful as a way to judge.
I just limit it by # of drinks, feeling fine doesn't matter.
You know what? I honestly think this is something that should be taught.
I know that people who are drunk are going to make bad decisions regardless, but I genuinely believe that most people have no idea what 0.05 or 0.08 actually feels like.
If people were to sit down and drink and have someone reliable to tell them:
"Hey, this is 0.08, you're drunk. This is what it feels like."
It might give people a frame of reference to help make better decisions.
The problem is that the person evaluating whether or not they can drive is the person whose judgement has been impaired
The problem is that the person evaluating whether or not they can drive is the person whose judgement has been impaired
You're right. We should be encouraging ignorance instead of informing people.
Maybe if they know how they feel when they're impaired they would be more likely to make a better, more informed decision, even though they're impaired.
Just because you've had a few drinks you're entire decision making process isnt completely eliminated.
If you're wasted then that cant be helped, but maybe it would sway some of the people that are impaired but not completely plastered.
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Agreed. While it could be interesting to see what .05 and .08 feel like there's so many different factors that change day to day, it's not useful as a way to judge.
I just limit it by # of drinks, feeling fine doesn't matter.
right, but in doing the test you would also know it took x number of drinks to get to .05 and y drinks to get to 0.08. So you wouldn't just have feel to go off of for a frame of reference.
I honestly have no idea what 0.05 feels like or how many drinks it takes to get there. Every site I look at for blood alcohol calculators including MADDs own chart tell me I can drink a 6 pack during a hockey game tho (3 hours) and be fine. That seems like a bit much to me personally, I should really buy a breathalyzer one day and find out.
You're right. We should be encouraging ignorance instead of informing people.
Maybe if they know how they feel when they're impaired they would be more likely to make a better, more informed decision, even though they're impaired.
Just because you've had a few drinks you're entire decision making process isnt completely eliminated.
If you're wasted then that cant be helped, but maybe it would sway some of the people that are impaired but not completely plastered.
People shouldn’t be deciding if they are able to drive based on how they feel.
People shouldn’t be deciding if they are able to drive based on how they feel.
Why not? MADD's chart tells me that I can have 5 beers in 3 hours and still be below 0.05. I feel, and I know, that is beyond my personal limit. I don't drink to a target on a chart or a breathalyzer, but I also know that my personal limit is lower than what the law allows.
I will admit that I am a pretty careful and mindful person, and I also don't need a bunch of drinks (or any) to have a good time. So it is easy for me to say two, one, or none is plenty. But that isn't true for everyone. If it was, impaired driving wouldn't be a thing.
Why not? MADD's chart tells me that I can have 5 beers in 3 hours and still be below 0.05. I feel, and I know, that is beyond my personal limit. I don't drink to a target on a chart or a breathalyzer, but I also know that my personal limit is lower than what the law allows.
I will admit that I am a pretty careful and mindful person, and I also don't need a bunch of drinks (or any) to have a good time. So it is easy for me to say two, one, or none is plenty. But that isn't true for everyone. If it was, impaired driving wouldn't be a thing.
It becomes problematic when the math says you are over but you try to argue that you are fine to drive. Your approach is the other way. You are choosing to be more conservative than Math would suggest based on how you feel.
Teaching new licensies who are early in their drinking careers what .05 feels like then suggesting using what that point feels like as a limit is just bad policy. Too many uncontrolled variables.
It becomes problematic when the math says you are over but you try to argue that you are fine to drive. Your approach is the other way. You are choosing to be more conservative than Math would suggest based on how you feel.
Teaching new licensies who are early in their drinking careers what .05 feels like then suggesting using what that point feels like as a limit is just bad policy. Too many uncontrolled variables.
And I totally agree. That's why it is so hard either way. Some will use it as a level that they would not possibly risk reaching, and others would treat it as a target that allows "just one more".
I'd be curious to know what .05 and .08 actually feels like. But the big difference is, my personal limit wouldn't change, but for others it might.
Anyway - not disagreeing or debating. Just rambling. Not drinking OR driving while writing this though.
You're right. We should be encouraging ignorance instead of informing people.
I just don't think it's enough information. The internet is a tool for informing people, and look how it's used - to reinforce biases. Similarly, if you give people a subjective experiential tool to use as a reference point, they will misremember it in favour of the outcome they want - which is that they're fine to drive. Everyone suffers from motivated reasoning of that type even in the best circumstances, and it's worse when you've been drinking. It will, in effect, inspire unjustified confidence in peoples' conclusions about how drunk they are, and those conclusions will be biased.
Educating people fully might be good - a full day on how alcohol affects people differently, how you can be misled into thinking you're not intoxicated when you are, delayed effects that might manifest when you're behind the wheel, feeling fine but blowing over, and so on. But it's unrealistic that that level of study will actually occur. An ironic analogy is apt here...
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely sobers us again.
__________________ "The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
I know this is a stupid question, and probably hard to answer; What if you’re caught having a drink in your car, but still way under BAC, and not enough booze in the car to get you over the limit?
Say I like to have a beer before enduring the mall or the grocery store. I can have a drink at home, or at the bar, by why can I not have a beer in my car? Honestly lately I’ve just been grabbing a tasty cold one and enjoying it in the parking lot on some of these beautiful days. Clearly couldn’t get an impaired driving infraction, but is there a lesser fine-only enforcement for open liquor?
Alcohol can't be within easy reach of the driver, let alone open. Yes, there is a fine for that. Not sure but it's around 300-350 I think. You don't even need to be in the drivers seat to get that fine, nor does the car need to be moving.
If you need a drink that badly, just wait till you're home.
Last edited by GoinAllTheWay; 04-27-2019 at 12:50 PM.
I know this is a stupid question, and probably hard to answer; What if you’re caught having a drink in your car, but still way under BAC, and not enough booze in the car to get you over the limit?
Say I like to have a beer before enduring the mall or the grocery store. I can have a drink at home, or at the bar, by why can I not have a beer in my car? Honestly lately I’ve just been grabbing a tasty cold one and enjoying it in the parking lot on some of these beautiful days. Clearly couldn’t get an impaired driving infraction, but is there a lesser fine-only enforcement for open liquor?
because laws have to be made for the lowest common denominator of people, unfortunately. Legally I can down 3 shots or chug 3 pints and drive home from a bar but god forbid I want to sip on a can of beer or two while driving on a nice sunny day heading camping.
most laws are like this, the lesser members of society ruin it for the rest of us.
I took a few months off drinking to start the year and these near beers have come a long way.
Haven't tried the Heineken ones, but in general they weren't bad and were nice to have during the Super Bowl and events like that where I was used to having a beer in hand.
because laws have to be made for the lowest common denominator of people, unfortunately. Legally I can down 3 shots or chug 3 pints and drive home from a bar but god forbid I want to sip on a can of beer or two while driving on a nice sunny day heading camping.
most laws are like this, the lesser members of society ruin it for the rest of us.
In Alberta, you could still be subject to a 24 hour suspension (and possibly further charges?)
In many jurisdictions (perhaps including Alberta depending on semantics), what you describe is anything but legal
In Alberta, you could still be subject to a 24 hour suspension (and possibly further charges?)
In many jurisdictions (perhaps including Alberta depending on semantics), what you describe is anything but legal
Which part is anything but legal? I know having open alcohol would be illegal and I don't do that, just saying it is a stupid law. As for downing 3 shots or chugging 3 beers and hopping in my car, what law would that be breaking? 3 drinks in 1/2 an hour are not enough to get me over 0.05.
