Inclusivity and the NHL: We Have a Problem

[Cecil Terwilliger]

nm

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Except uniforms changing for religious expression/rights has been a major issue for years and continued to be.

The police allowing Sikhs to wear turbans and women to wear Hijabs as part of the uniform being two recent examples. I assume most people on this board were in support of these examples (Probably a relatively inverse relationship to this thread if I was guessing)

In neither the turban nor the hijab case are either of those two pieces of attire directly representative of that person’s dislike/distrust/disapproval of how someone else was born.

I see what you’re saying, but again, these comparisons just don’t make much sense.

The thing with Reimer is that his words and actions don’t connect. He makes a verbal statement about how supportive and loving he is of all people, but cannot bring himself to wear the most inoffensive, placid representation of that support for 15 minutes. And I think it’s perfectly fair to criticize him for it.

I would disagree with anyone saying he should be forced to wear it. But I also disagree with anyone saying his views are above criticism.

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

You know wearing a Pride jersey isn’t the same as having gay sex, right?

The Pride parades I've been involved with have essentially meant I've been in orgies with their community.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Anyone who actually had a trans son would understand that, as unfortunate as it is, being a parent does not preclude someone from being transphobic or homophobic. I know I would be embarrassed and hurt if I knew my father was spending time online dismissing Pride of being nothing more than politically fashionable and doing playful little head-pats to other homophobes.

And I would think that anyone who actually thought accusations of homophobia were “ruining CP” wouldn’t contribute by making accusations of religiophobia.

You’re either a liar, or an embarrassing example of how not to live the values you pretend to have. Pretty gross. And I honestly think it’s worth asking yourself what you think you’re accomplishing and who you’re actually fighting for while keeping your son in mind.

The answer is liar. Poster has also claimed to have a developmentally challenged child when defending that draft pick who tortured a developmentally challenged kid in high school. It's a common theme for them. Has basically been on the wrong side of history in every single thread about bigotry, racism etc on CP for years.

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

So i your mind what what was Kaepernick disrespecting?

Racism. He was disrespecting racism. Racists hate when their hatred is dissed.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by BoLevi

Kadri took the Stanley Cup to a mosque that is openly and actively anti- gay. That's a far more serious issue than Reimer and his jersey.

But the current version of the Inclusivity Rules has deemed that deserves a merit badge. May you live in interesting times, I guess.

Interesting. Not the first time your point has been "Yeah, but....Muslims!"

What's your angle there?

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by 81MC

At the risk of stepping on a landline…

Who cares? People are untitled to their opinions and beliefs, however poor they are. Have a philosophical opposition to something, fine. Is his, or anyone else’s position, going to change by a frenzy around a uniform? No.

Opt out, shut up and everyone else carry on. We all have people in our own lives with whack-ass beliefs that we can meaningfully engage with if we want to unveil ignorance.

I understand your position, but I think there is value in presenting united opposition to harmful ideas and posturing, particularly when it comes to historically marginalized groups of human beings.

Rarely is doing nothing the solution.

[PuckSlap]

Progress is slow but it's still progress. Give everyone time to learn and adjust. Or they can keep their beliefs in whatever god they want, private. Like it was meant to be.

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

[AC]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1637216595348172800

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by Yamer

I understand your position, but I think there is value in presenting united opposition to harmful ideas and posturing, particularly when it comes to historically marginalized groups of human beings.

Rarely is doing nothing the solution.

I'm gonna ask something, not to incite anger but because I honestly don't know. Is opposition the best answer here? Would a gentler approach of education and using historical examples of prejudice towards the gay community not be more proactive?

I believe that when you take the stance of challenging and opposing their ignorant beliefs, you reinforce their dumb positions about the gay community. I think this opposition is what leads to other dumb stances like "but the Muslims!!" or "where's the Christian pride night??".

My 2 cents

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Anyone who actually had a trans son would understand that, as unfortunate as it is, being a parent does not preclude someone from being transphobic or homophobic. I know I would be embarrassed and hurt if I knew my father was spending time online dismissing Pride of being nothing more than politically fashionable and doing playful little head-pats to other homophobes.

You should be embarrassed anyway. You casually misrepresent other's views on CP and spew more hate than I ever could.

I don't opposeLGBT rights in the slightest. The fact that you drew such a conclusion shows you're a moron. But we already knew that. What I do oppose is a league trying to whitewash their past with this political posturing. Ask Kris Beech if he thinks the NHL is sincere about their "pride".

I also just generally oppose political orthodoxy in any of its forms. If history is any guide, it doesn't end well. The fact that there appears to be no room for someone to just not participate without being dragged through the mud is disturbing.

Using "pride" to tar Christians with labels like "bigot" and "homophobe" is what is truly gross here. You're not helping the cause and no LGBT person I know supports this. But they have to continue to live alongside Christians while people like you actively seek to create enemies for them.

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

And I would think that anyone who actually thought accusations of homophobia were “ruining CP” wouldn’t contribute by making accusations of religiophobia.

I was pointing out the hypocrisy. Again, you miss every point. Almost like you're doing it on purpose.

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

You’re either a liar, or an embarrassing example of how not to live the values you pretend to have. Pretty gross. And I honestly think it’s worth asking yourself what you think you’re accomplishing and who you’re actually fighting for while keeping your son in mind.

I showed this to my trans son and his response: "Wow, what a ######bag." I couldn't agree more. But I'm sure you think I'm lying about that. I don't care either way. And he doesn't care if someone doesn't want to wear a "stupid jersey" (his words, hockey is not his thing). And you, yourself, said it was an ugly jersey anyway.

My values are consistently in favor of freedom. I want my trans son to be free to be their authentic self. And I think Reimer should be afforded the same opportunity. I also try to put myself in other's shoes and see things from their vantage point. I try to be both respectful and forgiving. And when I make mistakes, I apologize. You on the other hand just cast down from on high. I think it is you, not me, that needs to reconsider their values. You're on a message board telling a stranger that they are a bad father. What are you trying to accomplish?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by cannon7

You should be embarrassed anyway. You casually misrepresent other's views on CP and spew more hate than I ever could.

I don't opposeLGBT rights in the slightest. The fact that you drew such a conclusion shows you're a moron. But we already knew that. What I do oppose is a league trying to whitewash their past with this political posturing. Ask Kris Beech if he thinks the NHL is sincere about their "pride".

I also just generally oppose political orthodoxy in any of its forms. If history is any guide, it doesn't end well. The fact that there appears to be no room for someone to just not participate without being dragged through the mud is disturbing.

Using "pride" to tar Christians with labels like "bigot" and "homophobe" is what is truly gross here. You're not helping the cause and no LGBT person I know supports this. But they have to continue to live alongside Christians while people like you actively seek to create enemies for them.



I was pointing out the hypocrisy. Again, you miss every point. Almost like you're doing it on purpose.



I showed this to my trans son and his response: "Wow, what a ######bag." I couldn't agree more. But I'm sure you think I'm lying about that. I don't care either way. And he doesn't care if someone doesn't want to wear a "stupid jersey" (his words, hockey is not his thing). And you, yourself, said it was an ugly jersey anyway.

My values are consistently in favor of freedom. I want my trans son to be free to be their authentic self. And I think Reimer should be afforded the same opportunity. I also try to put myself in other's shoes and see things from their vantage point. I try to be both respectful and forgiving. And when I make mistakes, I apologize. You on the other hand just cast down from on high. I think it is you, not me, that needs to reconsider their values. You're on a message board telling a stranger that they are a bad father. What are you trying to accomplish?

Did you show your child with development issues the thread where you spent the whole time defending someone who tortured a child with a disability?

You even went as far to point out that the mother of that victim was also a bully, but having a trans kid makes it impossible for you to be homophobic?

What am I trying to accomplish? I told you, I’m pointing out the hypocrisy between the positions you hold and the values you claim to represent. You spend more time on this board defending racists, bullies, bigots, and mocking/dismissing anyone that cares about any social issues as part of some “mob” or whatever. When you talk about freedom, you refer to the freedom of people who hate, abuse, distrust, or dismiss people like your children to continue doing it without criticism, and that’s what you defend.

If you care about trans kids, or people with disabilities, or anyone at all, you don’t show it. And every time you get called out you play this pathetic “cast down from high” self righteous bull#### about how forgiving and imperfect you are. But you’ve never once shown any kindness or love to anyone that even remotely identifies in the same way your apparent children do.

If you don’t like the label, stop living it.

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

The answer is liar. Poster has also claimed to have a developmentally challenged child when defending that draft pick who tortured a developmentally challenged kid in high school. It's a common theme for them. Has basically been on the wrong side of history in every single thread about bigotry, racism etc on CP for years.

Amusing. Someone has been paying attention.

Both are true. And they're not the same child. I have six children. So I guess I have four more lies to share? So you better keep count.

[Badgers Nose]

I am encouraged by the absolutism and simplification of the issue on both sides, as that’s usually how these matters get settled. And the what aboutism is rocket fuel for a solution. Faith in humanity restored. /s

[FormerPresJamesTaylor]

"I have a gay son, no way could I be homophobic"

Is that how this works? Are people still thinking that's an argument?

[FormerPresJamesTaylor]

Originally Posted by cannon7

Both are true. And they're not the same child. I have six children. So I guess I have four more lies to share? So you better keep count.

That's four more shields.

[BoLevi]

Originally Posted by btimbit

Interesting. Not the first time your point has been "Yeah, but....Muslims!"

What's your angle there?

I find it an interesting bit of inconsistency from CP....which I think is actually quite common. You pre-determine which groups are oppressed, and then draw your conclusions on future situations based on oppression status.

Reimer is last place when it comes to oppression points, so people feel free to unload on him.

[BoLevi]

Originally Posted by PuckSlap

Progress is slow but it's still progress. Give everyone time to learn and adjust. Or they can keep their beliefs in whatever god they want, private. Like it was meant to be.

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

Reimer is not allowed to keep his views private. That's the core of the issue here. It is insufficient to remain private, you MUST be performative in your support. You must demonstrate support for the idea, otherwise you are labelled a heretic and pilloried. That's how this works, and why it is totalitarian and anti-liberal.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by BoLevi

Reimer is not allowed to keep his views private. That's the core of the issue here. It is insufficient to remain private, you MUST be performative in your support. You must demonstrate support for the idea, otherwise you are labelled a heretic and pilloried. That's how this works, and why it is totalitarian and anti-liberal.

lol. Do you even understand how ridiculous you sound? We're laughing at you. I want you to know that. You're a clown. A misinformed clown.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by BoLevi

I find it an interesting bit of inconsistency from CP....which I think is actually quite common. You pre-determine which groups are oppressed, and then draw your conclusions on future situations based on oppression status.

Reimer is last place when it comes to oppression points, so people feel free to unload on him.

He’s a white male too. Probably a racist misogynist.

Did I get that right? Think that’s how it works.