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Old 07-27-2022, 02:53 PM   #5681
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Here's a good example of someone who actually is an expert on a topic reviewing Schellenberger's work:



https://yaleclimateconnections.org/2...calypse-never/
Funny how everything is turning into on the Rogan Podcast = loser with terrible ideas. Falls in line with more of Rube's steller posts the last few pages on this thread and elsewhere as well.

Go look at what he is proposing. The crime & homeless policies fall in line with successful European models. His climate & environmental polices are basically pro-nuclear, and also sensible fossil fuel usage which includes admitting that 3rd world countries are going to use more fossil fuels as they rise out of poverty, and the rich West elites have no right to stop them.
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Old 07-27-2022, 02:56 PM   #5682
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You can't just ignore that there is really no room to add housing in a coastal city like San Francisco. Even 100k earners are priced out of housing there and you can see plenty of well dressed people living in late model cars all over the place. I'm not really sure what solutions are out there when there isn't enough space to house everyone who wants to live there.
There is also very much an anti-housing sentiment in San Francisco. Go look at the amount of low-income housing being built, or even permits being issued for multi-unit housing. The city is a disaster, and there is a reason why so many people have left it and California in general the past few years.

The posts here saying 'oh you can't just up and leave if you can't get a job or buy a house, blah, blah, blah' are hilarious, considering California is declining in population for the first time in 100 years.
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Old 07-27-2022, 03:02 PM   #5683
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There is also very much an anti-housing sentiment in San Francisco. Go look at the amount of low-income housing being built, or even permits being issued for multi-unit housing. The city is a disaster, and there is a reason why so many people have left it and California in general the past few years.

The posts here saying 'oh you can't just up and leave if you can't get a job or buy a house, blah, blah, blah' are hilarious, considering California is declining in population for the first time in 100 years.
A lot of states are seeing population declines. The US as a whole has had a declining population growth rate. At the current rate - its going to go down in lots of places in the country.

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Old 07-27-2022, 03:07 PM   #5684
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The posts here saying 'oh you can't just up and leave if you can't get a job or buy a house, blah, blah, blah' are hilarious, considering California is declining in population for the first time in 100 years.
Do you think upper middle-class and wealthy folks leaving California for lower taxes in other states is comparable to the unhoused and those living in poverty?

EDIT: Also "SAN FRANSICKO" looks like the headline of a Rick Bell column. It's pretty obvious which audience he's trying to cater to with a title like that.

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Old 07-27-2022, 03:15 PM   #5685
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Do you think upper middle-class and wealthy folks leaving California for lower taxes in other states is comparable to the unhoused and those living in poverty?

EDIT: Also "SAN FRANSICKO" looks like the headline of a Rick Bell column. It's pretty obvious which audience he's trying to cater to with a title like that.
I prefer "SCAM FRANCISCO"

(full disclaimer, I love San Francisco)
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Old 07-27-2022, 03:33 PM   #5686
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Reading conversations about San Francisco and the Bay Area from people who have never lived, worked, or even visited there outside vacation or a work trip (if at all) fills me with a constant, steady joy that few things on here do.
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Old 07-27-2022, 03:42 PM   #5687
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A lot of states are seeing population declines. The US as a whole has had a declining population growth rate. At the current rate - its going to go down in lots of places in the country.
California has is a top 10 world economy, massive fiscal surplus, untold resources and economic strength. To decline in population over multiple years is a complete disaster.

It is not the same as a state that lost major employers over the years, such as coal production or factories that went to China.
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Old 07-27-2022, 03:44 PM   #5688
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Funny how everything is turning into on the Rogan Podcast = loser with terrible ideas. Falls in line with more of Rube's steller posts the last few pages on this thread and elsewhere as well.
Going on Rogan's show doesn't mean you have terrible ideas. But I'm immediately skeptical of anyone providing simple solutions to very complex problems, while simultaneously marveling at how no one is actually implementing these solutions. It's basically the intellectual equivalent of "this one weird trick" or Homer Simpson's "everybody is stupid except me". And of course he's not actually interested in proposing real solutions, because he's in the business of selling books and building a brand. So he's more interested in either riling people up or telling them what they want to hear than he is engaging with complex problems.

That article I linked gives a good idea of what kind of rigor his ideas stand up to. Just a bunch of straw man arguments that he builds up and then knocks over, while ignoring any real nuance or complexity that might make his proposed solutions ineffective or impossible.

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Go look at what he is proposing. The crime & homeless policies fall in line with successful European models. His climate & environmental polices are basically pro-nuclear, and also sensible fossil fuel usage which includes admitting that 3rd world countries are going to use more fossil fuels as they rise out of poverty, and the rich West elites have no right to stop them.
Mass arrests of homeless people is a successful European model?
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Old 07-27-2022, 03:46 PM   #5689
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Do you think upper middle-class and wealthy folks leaving California for lower taxes in other states is comparable to the unhoused and those living in poverty?

EDIT: Also "SAN FRANSICKO" looks like the headline of a Rick Bell column. It's pretty obvious which audience he's trying to cater to with a title like that.
California has a $100 billion dollar budget surplus as the fifth largest world economy. Imagine if Canada had a $100 billion dollar surplus and a declining population. Would you blame that on the wealthy and upper middle class leaving town because some other country offers them lower taxes? Or perhaps admit that people are leaving because of a long list of other issues, including lack of housing, crime, drug, homelessness, lack of jobs, etc?
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Old 07-27-2022, 03:52 PM   #5690
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California has is a top 10 world economy, massive fiscal surplus, untold resources and economic strength. To decline in population over multiple years is a complete disaster.

It is not the same as a state that lost major employers over the years, such as coal production or factories that went to China.
1/3rd of the US states saw population declines in 2021, primarily due to excess deaths from COVID and a lack of immigration. It stands to reason the states that normally have high levels of foreign-born residents (like California where 27% of the population was born abroad, which is #1 in the country) would be hit harder by the reduced immigration numbers during the pandemic.
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Old 07-27-2022, 03:52 PM   #5691
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Going on Rogan's show doesn't mean you have terrible ideas. But I'm immediately skeptical of anyone providing simple solutions to very complex problems, while simultaneously marveling at how no one is actually implementing these solutions. It's basically the intellectual equivalent of "this one weird trick" or Homer Simpson's "everybody is stupid except me". And of course he's not actually interested in proposing real solutions, because he's in the business of selling books and building a brand. So he's more interested in either riling people up or telling them what they want to hear than he is engaging with complex problems.

That article I linked gives a good idea of what kind of rigor his ideas stand up to. Just a bunch of straw man arguments that he builds up and then knocks over, while ignoring any real nuance or complexity that might make his proposed solutions ineffective or impossible.

Mass arrests of homeless people is a successful European model?
If you're actually interested on his perspective, and how it relates to how other areas have dealt with similar issues, here is a thread where he talks about it. If you bother to listen to any of his interviews, read any of his papers relating specifically to the drug problem or issue with homelessness, you'd quickly find that he has spent a lot of time researching those specific problems, and has talked to and interviewed a lot of people in the cities & regions he cites who have had massive success with their policies.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1473093627802894345
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Old 07-27-2022, 03:58 PM   #5692
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1/3rd of the US states saw population declines in 2021, primarily due to excess deaths from COVID and a lack of immigration. It stands to reason the states that normally have high levels of foreign-born residents (like California where 27% of the population was born abroad, which is #1 in the country) would be hit harder by the reduced immigration numbers during the pandemic.
Florida has similar levels of foreign born residents. Did their population decline?

Texas has 17% foreign born residents. Did their population decline?

I mean I get that some states are declining in population. Your reason however is completely wrong.

Maybe Rube is correct and it is the low taxes.
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Old 07-27-2022, 04:18 PM   #5693
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California has a $100 billion dollar budget surplus as the fifth largest world economy. Imagine if Canada had a $100 billion dollar surplus and a declining population. Would you blame that on the wealthy and upper middle class leaving town because some other country offers them lower taxes? Or perhaps admit that people are leaving because of a long list of other issues, including lack of housing, crime, drug, homelessness, lack of jobs, etc?
My comment was regarding the practicality of picking up and leaving California based on your economic status, not the reasons for leaving California.
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Old 07-27-2022, 04:30 PM   #5694
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California has is a top 10 world economy, massive fiscal surplus, untold resources and economic strength. To decline in population over multiple years is a complete disaster.

It is not the same as a state that lost major employers over the years, such as coal production or factories that went to China.
It actually kind of is. And its also due to the other societal factors such as high taxes, high costs, etc.

If you're a big tech company why do you want to pay California taxes when your workforce can be anywhere in the country?

Major employers are bailing out of California and moving to places like Texas.
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Old 07-27-2022, 08:07 PM   #5695
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I'm not really sure who this actually appeals to. But guessing it lasts longer than the Howard Schultz Presidential run.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1552443824202727424
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Old 07-27-2022, 09:31 PM   #5696
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I'm not really sure who this actually appeals to. But guessing it lasts longer than the Howard Schultz Presidential run.



https://twitter.com/user/status/1552443824202727424
I'll withhold judgement until I see a platform, but with Yang at the helm it doesn't sound too compelling.
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Old 07-27-2022, 09:34 PM   #5697
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More than two parties sounds better than the status quo.
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Old 07-27-2022, 10:09 PM   #5698
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More than two parties sounds better than the status quo.
There are several parties in the U.S. It's just impossible for any of them to gain any traction because their electoral system is dog####.
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Old 07-27-2022, 10:55 PM   #5699
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I'm not really sure who this actually appeals to. But guessing it lasts longer than the Howard Schultz Presidential run.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1552443824202727424
More power to them! The two-party electoral system down there is a sad, sad situation. I think they are probably right that there may not have been another time in recent history where there was so much dissatisfaction on both sides with the two-party system.
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Old 07-28-2022, 02:28 AM   #5700
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More than two parties sounds better than the status quo.
You know what's worse than two crappy parties? Two crappy parties and a third party that swings more votes from the less crappy party and causes the crappier one to win.
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