COVID-19 Vaccine Talk, 2nd Dose

[Fuzz]

I don't find those arguments very convincing. It doesn't help some of his references are from last summer, such as for this section

Furthermore, post‐infection immunity has been found to be atleast as effective as vaccination at protecting against disease due toreinfection with COVID‐19.24An increasingly large body of evidencesuggests that immunity after previous severe acute respiratorysyndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS‐CoV‐2) infection is at least as robustas vaccine‐induced immunity.25Childhood exposure to SARS‐CoV‐2,which, as previously discussed, is generally associated with mild viralillness, may offer protection against more severe illness in adult-hood.26

If you are trying to defend a position, best to base it on relevant current data. As to the bolded bit, from the referenced paper(also outdated now):

Using an age-varying reverse catalytic model, we estimated the overall duration of immunity, as measured by seropositivity, to be between 0.9 (95% CrI: 0.6 - 1.6) years and 3.8 (95% CrI: 2.0 - 7.4) years for HCoV’s

Like I said, unconvincing. But as we know, nothing will change your mind as you seek out papers to validate your position. Keep it to yourself, lest you happen to convince others and do harm to them.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by ikaris

The ethics of mandating vaccination for healthy children are not so cut and dry which you and others claim.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...111/bioe.13015

Dude… we need to figure one thing out before you start quoting sources. How is your reading comprehension? Are you having a hard time understanding what people are pushing back against here with your post? It’s verrrrrrrry straight forward. A simple sentence with a clear response that has one meaning. I also never made such a claim…

We aren’t talking about ethics of mandating vaccines.

You seem to be having trouble understanding a simple question you responded too. It sort of feels like a waste of time discussing anything in depth.

[Fuzz]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1508949980727287809


I went Pfi-Pfi-Pfi-Mo, thinking mixing it up might be good.

[curves2000]

[Ashartus]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

https://twitter.com/user/status/1508949980727287809


I went Pfi-Pfi-Pfi-Mo, thinking mixing it up might be good.

Purely because of availability I ended up AZ-Pfi-Mo, maybe that turns out to be a good thing.

[ikaris]

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/health/med...3abcd909cca14a

I was wondering why it felt my tinnitus was acting up again and it seemed this started to occur when I got my second dose.

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by ikaris

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/health/med...3abcd909cca14a

I was wondering why it felt my tinnitus was acting up again and it seemed this started to occur when I got my second dose.

Sorry that you are one of the "extremely rare" cases. Bad luck you have.

[getbak]

"The WHO reported 367 cases of tinnitus and 164 cases of hearing loss among the 11 billion vaccines administered."


You have a better chance of winning Lotto 6/49.

[ikaris]

Originally Posted by getbak

"The WHO reported 367 cases of tinnitus and 164 cases of hearing loss among the 11 billion vaccines administered."


You have a better chance of winning Lotto 6/49.

That was data when they looked into it in February 2021. When they looked again in November 2021:

Addendum on 24 November 2021
Tinnitus is only listed as an adverse reaction
for the Janssen COVID-19 vaccine.
An updated search of VigiBase has been
performed for the PTs included in this signal
assessment (Table-A) and for the terms with
a positive (>0) IC025 values for each COVID19 vaccine (Table-B).
In brief, the terms selected for hearing
disorders included sudden hearing loss,
tinnitus, deafness unilateral, neurosensory
hypoacusis, deafness, deafness transitory,
and hypoacusis. On 18 November 2021 there
were 37 529 deduplicated cases, for which at
least one of these terms was reported, from
86 countries: 21 countries reported more
than 100 cases; another 22 countries
reported 10-99 cases; 15 countries reported
5-9 cases and 28 countries reported 1-4
cases.

I wonder how many now? How many people are like me who didn't think to report this association because there was no way anything could be related to the vaccine itself... I'll definitely be going to my doctor with this. I'm curious if they say, completely not associated as they often do.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by ikaris

That was data when they looked into it in February 2021. When they looked again in November 2021:

Addendum on 24 November 2021
Tinnitus is only listed as an adverse reaction
for the Janssen COVID-19 vaccine.
An updated search of VigiBase has been
performed for the PTs included in this signal
assessment (Table-A) and for the terms with
a positive (>0) IC025 values for each COVID19 vaccine (Table-B).
In brief, the terms selected for hearing
disorders included sudden hearing loss,
tinnitus, deafness unilateral, neurosensory
hypoacusis, deafness, deafness transitory,
and hypoacusis. On 18 November 2021 there
were 37 529 deduplicated cases, for which at
least one of these terms was reported, from
86 countries: 21 countries reported more
than 100 cases; another 22 countries
reported 10-99 cases; 15 countries reported
5-9 cases and 28 countries reported 1-4
cases.

I wonder how many now? How many people are like me who didn't think to report this association because there was no way anything could be related to the vaccine itself... I'll definitely be going to my doctor with this. I'm curious if they say, completely not associated as they often do.

35% of people have had tinnitus in the past year per statscan.

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/.../00001-eng.htm

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by ikaris

That was data when they looked into it in February 2021. When they looked again in November 2021:

Addendum on 24 November 2021
Tinnitus is only listed as an adverse reaction
for the Janssen COVID-19 vaccine.
An updated search of VigiBase has been
performed for the PTs included in this signal
assessment (Table-A) and for the terms with
a positive (>0) IC025 values for each COVID19 vaccine (Table-B).
In brief, the terms selected for hearing
disorders included sudden hearing loss,
tinnitus, deafness unilateral, neurosensory
hypoacusis, deafness, deafness transitory,
and hypoacusis. On 18 November 2021 there
were 37 529 deduplicated cases, for which at
least one of these terms was reported, from
86 countries: 21 countries reported more
than 100 cases; another 22 countries
reported 10-99 cases; 15 countries reported
5-9 cases and 28 countries reported 1-4
cases.

I wonder how many now? How many people are like me who didn't think to report this association because there was no way anything could be related to the vaccine itself... I'll definitely be going to my doctor with this. I'm curious if they say, completely not associated as they often do.

That’s still exceedingly rare. A 0.00041% chance, to put a number on it. And that’s just for tinnitus, which was the most common reported of the terms by far. Even if you say half, or a third, or a tenth of the cases of tinnitus were actually reported, it is still extremely rare.

Then there’s the fact that the majority of cases occurred within 1 day, the rest within 19, and the majority resolved quickly.

So if your tinnitus, which emerged some time after the second dose and still lingers today was in fact related, you’d be experiencing something unimaginably rare. Of course that’s not as compelling as jumping to the conclusion that it must be the cause and your doctor will just brush it off.

[photon]

Obligatory...

[MoneyGuy]

Originally Posted by getbak

"The WHO reported 367 cases of tinnitus and 164 cases of hearing loss among the 11 billion vaccines administered."


You have a better chance of winning Lotto 6/49.

"Media bullsheet." -antivaxxers everywhere

[Just a guy]

Originally Posted by ikaris

That was data when they looked into it in February 2021. When they looked again in November 2021:

Addendum on 24 November 2021
Tinnitus is only listed as an adverse reaction
for the Janssen COVID-19 vaccine.
An updated search of VigiBase has been
performed for the PTs included in this signal
assessment (Table-A) and for the terms with
a positive (>0) IC025 values for each COVID19 vaccine (Table-B).
In brief, the terms selected for hearing
disorders included sudden hearing loss,
tinnitus, deafness unilateral, neurosensory
hypoacusis, deafness, deafness transitory,
and hypoacusis. On 18 November 2021 there
were 37 529 deduplicated cases, for which at
least one of these terms was reported, from
86 countries: 21 countries reported more
than 100 cases; another 22 countries
reported 10-99 cases; 15 countries reported
5-9 cases and 28 countries reported 1-4
cases.

I wonder how many now? How many people are like me who didn't think to report this association because there was no way anything could be related to the vaccine itself... I'll definitely be going to my doctor with this. I'm curious if they say, completely not associated as they often do.

Don't you know rarity only matters when it supports the narrative! Bring up the likelihood of getting and or dying of covid you are an antivaxxer and are killing people. Bring up a possible adverse affect, then it is only rare and sucks to be you regardless if it occurred after your shot. 1/3 of the people have it so shut up! Having had tinnitus over the years (comes and goes) I sympathize. I have been lucky in that mine only lasts a short time.

[PepsiFree]

Most people: “Rarity is context dependant, meaning it matters based on what is rare, how rare it is, and any cost/benefit analysis when it’s something you’re trying to capture or avoid.”

JAG: “RaRiTy oNlY maTTers iF it SUpPorts yEr nARrATive!”

Brilliant as always.

[Just a guy]

I give two examples to prove the point and the dishonest hypocrite comes on to supposedly prove his brilliance. I am unimpressed.

[PepsiFree]

You gave *two examples to *illustrate your point.

Still on the “I know what you are but what am I” thing huh? Can’t say I’m worried about whether you’re impressed. I’ve seen what impresses you.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Just a guy

Don't you know rarity only matters when it supports the narrative! Bring up the likelihood of getting and or dying of covid you are an antivaxxer and are killing people. Bring up a possible adverse affect, then it is only rare and sucks to be you regardless if it occurred after your shot. 1/3 of the people have it so shut up! Having had tinnitus over the years (comes and goes) I sympathize. I have been lucky in that mine only lasts a short time.

So if you are choosing between which is more likely what do you choose.

Ikaris existing tinnitus is made worse by the vaccine

Or

Ikaris existing tinnitus got worse around the time of the vaccine but was an independent event.

What do you feel is more likely? And what is the basis for your feeling?

For me knowing that 1/3 of people experience tinnitus each year I would in the absence of extraordinary evidence assume no causation between the vaccine and tinnitus. But if such statiscally significant evidence (like blood clots from AZ) existed, I would be happy to acknowledge it

[Just a guy]

Originally Posted by GGG

So if you are choosing between which is more likely what do you choose.

Ikaris existing tinnitus is made worse by the vaccine

Or

Ikaris existing tinnitus got worse around the time of the vaccine but was an independent event.

What do you feel is more likely? And what is the basis for your feeling?

For me knowing that 1/3 of people experience tinnitus each year I would in the absence of extraordinary evidence assume no causation between the vaccine and tinnitus. But if such statiscally significant evidence (like blood clots from AZ) existed, I would be happy to acknowledge it

From my experience I generally know what causes my tinnitus to act up. If it did so outside of those conditions then it would be fair to say something else may have caused it.
There are a lot of posters that are assuming that Ikiris does not understand his own condition. That is my point.
You are equating a general average, which you have given me feedback on in the past, to a personal experience.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Just a guy

There are a lot of posters that are assuming that Ikiris does not understand his own condition. That is my point.
You are equating a general average, which you have given me feedback on in the past, to a personal experience.

No, there are posters giving context that illustrates the likelihood of Ikaris’s jump to conclusion being correct vs. other causes.

No one is equating the general average to a personal experience. I don’t think you understand the conversation.