COVID-19 Vaccine Talk, 2nd Dose

[woolymammoth]

Originally Posted by Roughneck

We aren’t in a supply shortage so this concern doesn’t really hold up anymore.

So when you use non-issues to justify not getting boosters when recommended, that’s when you become an anti-vaxxer. To answer your question.

Oh really are we not? There are lots of places in the world that would benefit from the vaccine before all the healthy 32 year olds and younger Canadians are lining up for a 3rd dose. Shortage now? No. But when everywhere does open up to a third dose it probably doesn't take long before they are once again hard to come by. To be clear I also had covid before having any Vaccination. As this becomes Endemic the vaccine uptake will naturally fall and the people who are most at risk will continue to receive the shots. It would make sense if the rules and regulations did as well in my opinion.

[Benched]

Originally Posted by getbak

Unless you're travelling out of the country sometime soon (or might need to leave the country on less than 2 weeks notice), I'd hold off for now. It sounds like we might be getting updates to the mRNA vaccines that better target Delta and the other variants.

Yeah we were debating back and forth on this, do 3rd dose and then get a booster? or just hold off and do two birds one stone. Not travelling until next year so maybe we hold off

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by woolymammoth

Oh really are we not? There are lots of places in the world that would benefit from the vaccine before all the healthy 32 year olds and younger Canadians are lining up for a 3rd dose. Shortage now? No. But when everywhere does open up to a third dose it probably doesn't take long before they are once again hard to come by.

Do you think vaccine production capacity has dropped since 2021Q1?

[woolymammoth]

Originally Posted by Roughneck

Do you think vaccine production capacity has dropped since 2021Q1?

I'm honestly not sure. But I know there are lots of places with people that don't have access to the vaccine.

I also know that if this is a forever thing there is going to be lots of people hopping off the 2-3 Vaccination a year train. We have other yearly Vaccination statistics to point towards and say that there is no way we will still have 70% of Canadians lining up for 2 or 3 shots a year when this drags into 2022,23,24,25 and so on. At some point the rules and hard core anti Vaccination finger pointers will need to go back into hiding.

Or is Pfizer just going to post 33 billion or whatever it was a year in profit from covid vaccines every year for eternity?

[PeteMoss]

If you don't want to get the booster, then don't get it.

You aren't even eligible for it and there is no mandate for it.

No idea where you are from but in Alberta there isn't any restrictions on you even if you have zero doses. If they bring one in - it will be for 2 shots until it becomes obvious that 3 shots are required.

You can even high five yourself about how you are saving people in Africa if you want in this hypothetical situation you've created for yourself.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by woolymammoth

I'm honestly not sure. But I know there are lots of places with people that don't have access to the vaccine.

I also know that if this is a forever thing there is going to be lots of people hopping off the 2-3 Vaccination a year train. We have other yearly Vaccination statistics to point towards and say that there is no way we will still have 70% of Canadians lining up for 2 or 3 shots a year when this drags into 2022,23,24,25 and so on. At some point the rules and hard core anti Vaccination finger pointers will need to go back into hiding.

Or is Pfizer just going to post 33 billion or whatever it was a year in profit from covid vaccines every year for eternity?

And that point is when we can go through one respitory illness season without canceling surgeries

But if we don’t have sufficient people on this train then the number of years waves will overwhelm hospitals will be longer. If those waves occur it’s perfectly reasonable to be a hard core anti vax finger wagger.

When you mention people oversees not getting vaccinated you sound like a mother telling her child to eat their food because there are starving people in the world. Canada is always going to order vaccine and have it expire based on best available scientific recommendations so your choosing to be boosted or not will not affect vaccine access in lower income nations.

When you mention the profit that Pfizer makes you seem to be looking for a reason not to be vaccinated and are starting to invoke conspiracies that the drug companies are controlling vaccination policy for profit. Pfizer will make what they make as they reduce death from Covid and allow economies to be open. I’m not sure what nearing that has on the conversation on whether or not to be vaccinated. But if you are concerned with the boogeyman changing government policies you should closely monitor what US insurance companies do for pricing vaccinated, unvaccinated and boosted people because those companies are purely actuarial profit machines. If they offer lower rates to the vaccinated and lower rates to the boosted then the math for vaccination works out very well.

It sounds like since you had Covid and it had a minimal affect on you you underestimate the consequences of getting it and it’s affects on society and are looking for a reason not to get booster?

Why don’t you want to get a booster when recommended by PHAC?

[woolymammoth]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

If you don't want to get the booster, then don't get it.

You aren't even eligible for it and there is no mandate for it.

No idea where you are from but in Alberta there isn't any restrictions on you even if you have zero doses. If they bring one in - it will be for 2 shots until it becomes obvious that 3 shots are required.

You can even high five yourself about how you are saving people in Africa if you want in this hypothetical situation you've created for yourself.

You can high five yourself if you'd like as well. Africa, hmm I dont remember saying that? Right here in Canada 12 and under don't have access to the vaccine. So because you make assumptions am I supposed to say sorry now, haha? Or because some are dense it's my fault and therefore I just get piled on instead of receiving a regular response? Am I not allowed to speculate what the future of the vaccinations looks like without people getting bent out of shape?

[Cain]

The victim complex is pretty strong with you. It was a reasonable response given your premise.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by woolymammoth

Oh really are we not? There are lots of places in the world that would benefit from the vaccine before all the healthy 32 year olds and younger Canadians are lining up for a 3rd dose. Shortage now? No. But when everywhere does open up to a third dose it probably doesn't take long before they are once again hard to come by. To be clear I also had covid before having any Vaccination. As this becomes Endemic the vaccine uptake will naturally fall and the people who are most at risk will continue to receive the shots. It would make sense if the rules and regulations did as well in my opinion.

So when you said "lots of places in the world that would benefit from the vaccine", you meant here in Alberta for under 12 year olds who are not eligible for the vaccine?

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by woolymammoth

You can high five yourself if you'd like as well. Africa, hmm I dont remember saying that? Right here in Canada 12 and under don't have access to the vaccine. So because you make assumptions am I supposed to say sorry now, haha? Or because some are dense it's my fault and therefore I just get piled on instead of receiving a regular response? Am I not allowed to speculate what the future of the vaccinations looks like without people getting bent out of shape?

healthy 32 year old or not, just a reminder that just because you had a mild case the first time you got covid, doesn't mean you'll have such an easy go of it the second time.

[CliffFletcher]

WHO strongly opposing boosters.

Why A Push For Boosters Could Make The Pandemic Even Worse

…Officials at the World Health Organization said Wednesday that it strongly opposes booster shots for all adults in rich countries because the boosters will not help slow down the pandemic. By diverting doses away from unvaccinated people, booster shots will help drive the emergence of more dangerous mutants, the WHO doctors said.

"I'm afraid that this [booster recommendation] will only lead to more variants. ... And perhaps we're heading into an even more dire situation," WHO chief scientist Dr. Soumya Swaminathan said…

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsan...mic-even-worse

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Roughneck

We aren’t in a supply shortage so this concern doesn’t really hold up anymore.

So when you use non-issues to justify not getting boosters when recommended, that’s when you become an anti-vaxxer. To answer your question.

Nearly half the people on the planet have not received even a single dose yet. The population in rich countries is nearly 50 times more vaccinated than people in poor countries.

From an equity perspective, there is a real risk of worsening the existing global inequity in vaccinations. There remain 3.5 billion people on this earth, nearly half of the world’s population, who have not received even a first dose of vaccine. Only 2% of the African population has received even a single dose…

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01494-4

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Nearly half the people on the planet have not received even a single dose yet. The population in rich countries is nearly 50 times more vaccinated than people in poor countries.

Right now in Alberta we have a vaccine stockpile of ~1.2M doses. Which is also about the amount we'd need to fully vaccinate the rest of the unvaxxed population. Vaccine deliveries as a result to Alberta have gone down to zero. Canada's vaccine deliveries were 7M+ a month ago, the last was under 2.5M with most of that being secured as a federal allocation (basically holding on waiting for a place to send them). We have the supply we need, production is ramping up (2021Q2 is basically double of what the Q1 height was, 2022 is potentially doubling that again). The need for boosters is marginal in the case that current supply isn't adequate.



So supply isn't the issue,our deliveries are dropping and the doses we have aren't going anywhere else. This narrative needs to stop.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Nearly half the people on the planet have not received even a single dose yet. The population in rich countries is nearly 50 times more vaccinated than people in poor countries.

Is their current injection capacity in the world to vaccinate faster? Is supply the current bottleneck and can those places manage the logistics of Pfizer?

40 million doses per day are going into arms per our world in data. Thats just over .5% per day. Canada, a first world country sustained 1.2%, other G7s had difficulty sustaining over 1%. So on a global scale vaccinating .5% of population seems pretty reasonable.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Roughneck

So supply isn't the issue,our deliveries are dropping and the doses we have aren't going anywhere else. This narrative needs to stop.

What narrative do think the WHO and Nature magazine are trying to push?

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

What narrative do think the WHO and Nature magazine are trying to push?

One that doesn't really apply to Canada.



Our deliveries have dropped significantly while production has increased and will continue to increase through the year and into 2022. Where are we robbing supply from?

[Cali Panthers Fan]

I'm with Cliff on this one. Boosters for those who are severely at risk, but honestly, nobody else should qualify for it until the entire globe has had at least one dose.

[Roughneck]

Who's "severely" at risk and how many doses is that?

[Manhattanboy]

While the WHO may have a point re boosters they don’t have much credibility as far as I’m concerned.

Maybe I’m an idiot but I tune out the director and other WHO officials.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

I'm with Cliff on this one. Boosters for those who are severely at risk, but honestly, nobody else should qualify for it until the entire globe has had at least one dose.

Yes, but at the same time, if the alternatives are the doses sitting in a fridge, or going into the arms of those most vulnerable, it’s probably best if they go in the arms.