COVID-19 Vaccine Talk, 2nd Dose

[Azure]

I saw that a few days ago and my quick take on it was there was some serious issues with the actual study. Opendoor or others might be able to chime in with a better understanding on it.

[Knut]

More about the Author

https://www.gripeo.com/dr-steven-gundry/

Also read this info on it from Retraction watch

https://retractionwatch.com/2021/11/...on-of-concern/

[Knut]

This is prime Quackology..

Post a poorly done study. Get a tonne of shares on social media. Study is retracted but the retraction is not shared to the same extent.

[Buff]

Quack quack, he's a hack

[photon]

If it's on ZeroHedge basically assume it's false until proven true.

[Knut]

Boosted with Pfizer.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by Knut

Boosted with Pfizer.

cool!

since I'm over 50 I should look into getting mine right away.

My young daughter got her first shot this past Friday.
She was a bit anxious, but did really well.

No side effects and her only complaint was she got a grownup band-aid and not a kids one.

[Glassplat]

Got our Pfizer boosters yesterday from a Queen Creek, AZ (SE Phoenix bedroom community) Safeway pharmacy. Six months to the day of our second dose we got in June at home in YYC! Pharmacist was complaining about not having enough people qualified to administer shots with the demand. That said we had no issues booking our time slots. Not a lot of mask wearing anywhere down here except by the (Corporate) workers in large big box stores’s.

[spetch]

Has there been any good data released on the kids 5-11 from the USA? We are getting our kids vaccinated over the break but I would like to give my wife's mind a bit of a rest. She would like to see the lack of side effect data if possible just to give her more confidence but my google skills seem to be lacking

[PeteMoss]

More evidence that the mix and match of vaccines doses (dose 1 & 2) lead to better immunity responses.

https://www.reuters.com/business/hea...uk-2021-12-06/

AZ + Moderna/Novavax > 2 AZ
Pfizer + Moderna > 2 Pfizer

[opendoor]

The antibody responses of mixing are about what you'd expect. Moderna produces the best response, Pfizer the 2nd best, Novavax the 3rd best, and then AZ in a distant 4th. So it's not necessarily mixing that produces any improvement; 2x Moderna would probably be the best of all.

But the cellular responses are interesting. AZ->AZ and Pfizer->Pfizer are about the same against Delta (Pfizer is very slightly better). But AZ->Novavax produces a response nearly 5x higher than AZ->AZ while Pfizer->Novavax produces a terrible response, about 1/2 of what Pfizer->Pfizer is.

Though with the very small sample sizes, it's hard to know if that holds true over a larger population. For instance, the prior Com-Cov study showed Pfizer->Pfizer having nearly 2x the cellular response compared to AZ->AZ, whereas this one shows them being similar.

[Azure]

Canada to recommend that young people - in this case boys and men aged 12 through 29 - should opt for the Pfizer Covid-19 booster shot over Moderna's Spikevax due to a higher risk of myocarditis.

From Dec 3.

Lower reported rates of
myocarditis/pericarditis following
vaccination with Pfizer-BioNTech
Comirnaty (30 mcg) compared to
Moderna Spikevax (100 mcg). [This is
based upon data following the second
dose in the primary series using
Moderna Spikevax (100 mcg).
Evidence following the Moderna
Spikevax (50 mcg) booster dose is
limited.]

https://www.canada.ca/content/dam/ph...cine-doses.pdf

Also says that booster could be offered if there was a shorter interval between the first two shots. Yet other countries are again tripping over themselves to lower the interval for the booster shot.

[PeteMoss]

Hopefully they are working on an update to that since even though it was just done 5 days ago, its likely already out of date since it just has a passing mention to Omicron.

The Pfizer/Moderna choice makes sense based on the original doses and results but worth noting the Moderna booster is 1/2 of the initial Moderna shot (as they mention in the report)

[Azure]

Well, there really isn't any data on Omicron in regards to how the vaccines respond beyond a study they did on 12 people.

So it seems extremely strange to take the data we do have on Delta & other variants which is that longer intervals have been better, and completely throw it out of the window based on a variant we still don't know anything about.

But of course we're seeing more of a political do this or else response, and less of a 'what does the science say' response.

Which also explains the complete ignoring of natural immunity when pushing the booster shot, and the upcoming mandates we all know are coming in regards to the booster.

As an example, if I'm double vaccinated (3 months in), and have gotten COVID, the data is showing that my immunity is as strong as someone with a booster for up to 8 months. Therefore I would look at the booster at that time. But with a mandate, that changes.

[opendoor]

Pfizer also did lab tests and found similar results:

• Preliminary laboratory studies demonstrate that three doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine neutralize the Omicron variant (B.1.1.529 lineage) while two doses show significantly reduced neutralization titers
• Data indicate that a third dose of BNT162b2 increases the neutralizing antibody titers by 25-fold compared to two doses against the Omicron variant; titers after the booster dose are comparable to titers observed after two doses against the wild-type virus which are associated with high levels of protection
• As 80% of epitopes in the spike protein recognized by CD8+ T cells are not affected by the mutations in the Omicron variant, two doses may still induce protection against severe disease
• The companies continue to advance the development of a variant-specific vaccine for Omicron and expect to have it available by March in the event that an adaption is needed to further increase the level and duration of protection – with no change expected to the companies’ four billion dose capacity for 2022

https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-re...micron-variant

So 2 doses will likely not be very effective against infection, while 3 doses (at peak protection at least) should work somewhat well. It'll be interesting to see how effective a targeted booster will be. The multivalent Moderna shot that targeted both the wild-type and Beta showed excellent results (it generated an antibody response that was about 2-3x what the single-variant shots did against each variant), so I wonder if they'll do a Delta/Omicron shot.

[Buff]

What stage is Alberta at for rolling out boosters? Still 60+?

Edit: It was super easy for me to just look it up. Yes, 60+ for booster.

18-59 is listed as "coming soon". How soon, or how they'll roll that out remains to be seen.

[OldDutch]

Originally Posted by opendoor

Pfizer also did lab tests and found similar results:
[/I][/LIST]https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-re...micron-variant

So 2 doses will likely not be very effective against infection, while 3 doses (at peak protection at least) should work somewhat well. It'll be interesting to see how effective a targeted booster will be. The multivalent Moderna shot that targeted both the wild-type and Beta showed excellent results (it generated an antibody response that was about 2-3x what the single-variant shots did against each variant), so I wonder if they'll do a Delta/Omicron shot.

Was this ever answered for AZ + 2 mRNA people? Do they need a 3rd mRNA to count as properly boosted? (In Science terms not legal)

[Amethyst]

Originally Posted by OldDutch

Was this ever answered for AZ + 2 mRNA people? Do they need a 3rd mRNA to count as properly boosted? (In Science terms not legal)

I haven't heard anything yet and I'm curious to know, as I'm in that position. The thing that concerns me is that it was only 2.5 months (barely) between shot 2 and 3. I thought I read somewhere that waiting 6 months allows your antibodies to mature (?) or something, which makes the booster work better.

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by opendoor

Pfizer also did lab tests and found similar results:
[/I][/LIST]https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-re...micron-variant

So 2 doses will likely not be very effective against infection, while 3 doses (at peak protection at least) should work somewhat well. It'll be interesting to see how effective a targeted booster will be. The multivalent Moderna shot that targeted both the wild-type and Beta showed excellent results (it generated an antibody response that was about 2-3x what the single-variant shots did against each variant), so I wonder if they'll do a Delta/Omicron shot.

Having double Moderna that has been proven to have the highest immune response, the pseudo-science in my brain feels that it'd be best for me to wait til March to get a Delta/Omicron adapted booster shot, rather than getting one asap that's just another mRNA shot.

Thoughts on this? I got my 2nd shot in June, so in theory I'm eligible for a booster in a few weeks here.

[D as in David]

I'm eligible for a booster. My first two shots were AZ and Pfizer administered 11 weeks apart. Would getting Moderna for the booster be better than Pfizer?