Quattro + winter tires is something all of humanity should experience once.
I would love to try an Audi S6 (C6) with studded Nokians around an ice track. Sliding around with that V10 singing... wheeeeee. If I hadn't gotten bit by the Land Rover bug, I'd have killed to have found one of these in good shape. They were available for reasonable prices a few years ago and even seemed insulated from the wild used car market prices for a bit, but now they're either bagged to sh-t and cheap, or unreasonably expensive.
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Got to bite the bullet and get a new vehicle. Leaning towards a new Explorer. If my memory serves me correctly, wasn't there somebody on the forum who worked for Ford?
I think it is user Derek Sutton.
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It's always Quattro guys and Subaru guys that think they have a magical system. AWD is just awesome. I mean, even Chrysler can pull it off ffs.
Doug DeMuro made a bold statement that a late model Chrysler 200S with the Pentastar v6 and AWD was just a dolled up Evo killer. The numbers make an argument
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Doug DeMuro made a bold statement that a late model Chrysler 200S with the Pentastar v6 and AWD was just a dolled up Evo killer. The numbers make an argument
I remember this madness. Weight is the biggest difference, but again, 'dolled up' sort of implies that it isn't going to be the lightest option.
Curb weights (2015-16):
Chrysler 200s: 3,811 lbs.
Mitsubishi Evo Final Edition: 3,517 lbs.
Subaru STi: 3,402 lbs.
Out of curiosity, when you say “most”, I assume there are some that are different? What is the difference?
I think there are 3 main variants:
Haldex
Transverse engine, with a drive shaft that goes to the rear wheels. There is a clutch unity at the rear wheels that can engage the driveshaft to the wheels. Essentially a FWD car that can go up to 50/50 front vs. rear. While they've gotten a LOT faster, they still typically require some slip before they engage. Maybe that's changed on newer versions.
Torsen
Longitudinal engine with a planetary gear set in a centre differential. These cars can be rear while drive biased to some extent, often 60/40 rear. The centre diff will react on a loss of torque, which means power transfers before you lose traction. They can transfer up to ~85% of power to the rear, so in sporty applications you can get more rear wheel drive like handling compared to other AWD setups.
Crown Gear
Longitudinal layout, mechanically actuated clutch centre diff. It's lighter than torsion, and can fully lock. If you fully lose traction on one axle with Torsen, you're stuck. Crown gear full locking means you still get torque to the axle with traction. These have heat problems, and will wear. They also rely on slip before being activated. You can do cooler electronic things with them, like change your default front/rear bias, where as Torsen is mechanically determined.
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It's always Quattro guys and Subaru guys that think they have a magical system. AWD is just awesome. I mean, even Chrysler can pull it off ffs.
The Quattro marketing hype without people knowing what they have in their car is annoying. However, Torsen is magical. I was so sad with the Haldex car I had after my first Torsen.
Our car with viscous coupling, which is about as rudimentary as you can get, was more fun than Haldex.
Last edited by Bill Bumface; 11-05-2024 at 04:49 PM.
I did my reasearch and do actually know the difference between the "Quattro" in the TT for example vs the S5 that I ended up getting, but as somebody who has never had AWD to begin with it's obviously just a massive increase in low-grip performance regardless.
Haldex
Transverse engine, with a drive shaft that goes to the rear wheels. There is a clutch unity at the rear wheels that can engage the driveshaft to the wheels. Essentially a FWD car that can go up to 50/50 front vs. rear. While they've gotten a LOT faster, they still typically require some slip before they engage. Maybe that's changed on newer versions.
Torsen
Longitudinal engine with a planetary gear set in a centre differential. These cars can be rear while drive biased to some extent, often 60/40 rear. The centre diff will react on a loss of torque, which means power transfers before you lose traction. They can transfer up to ~85% of power to the rear, so in sporty applications you can get more rear wheel drive like handling compared to other AWD setups.
Crown Gear
Longitudinal layout, mechanically actuated clutch centre diff. It's lighter than torsion, and can fully lock. If you fully lose traction on one axle with Torsen, you're stuck. Crown gear full locking means you still get torque to the axle with traction. These have heat problems, and will wear. They also rely on slip before being activated. You can do cooler electronic things with them, like change your default front/rear bias, where as Torsen is mechanically determined.
I don't know much about cars, but the Haldex AWD sounds like it was designed to be stable and boring and not very sporty/aggressive in corners in comparison to the other options. It almost sounds like it would be stable driving in inclement weather and adverse conditions (maintains normal performance), but if you started trying to drive aggressively in those conditions it would basically just try to sorta neutralize it?
I've only driven vehicles with SH-AWD and xDrive and they both sound closer to the Torsen than Haldex. The xDrive in particular I can definitely feel the back kick out more when the TCS turns off when I'm on Sport+ mode.
I did my reasearch and do actually know the difference between the "Quattro" in the TT for example vs the S5 that I ended up getting, but as somebody who has never had AWD to begin with it's obviously just a massive increase in low-grip performance regardless.
My S5 doesn't feel particularly rear biased.
It shouldn’t anyway, considering it is still underpinned by what is designed as a FWD platform first… one that just happens to have optional AWD. Audi is unique in the big three German luxury brands (along with Mercedes and BMW) in that they’ve pitted FWD-based cars in the same executive saloon segment occupied by BMW & Merc’s RWD-based cars.
Only the R8, Q7, and some of the e-Tron models are based on RWD platforms.
Got to bite the bullet and get a new vehicle. Leaning towards a new Explorer. If my memory serves me correctly, wasn't there somebody on the forum who worked for Ford?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironhorse
I think it is user Derek Sutton.
Thanks. I’m no longer at a Ford store. I’m also not in the city either, nor on the sales side any more….
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