06-12-2022, 02:05 PM
|
#3121
|
#1 Goaltender
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Textcritic
If they are "very different players" who are on different levels, then no,the comparison between MacKinnon and Gaudreau does not work. It doesn't work because MacKinnon is already arguably the best player in the world who can command pretty much whatever he wants on his next contract. Gaudreau was never in a position to do that.
Sent from my SM-G986W using Tapatalk
|
And yet here we are sitting on pins and needles waiting and hoping the Flames don't lose the only star we've had since Iginla and the player that is directly responsible for 90% of the team's offense. That won't be happening in Colorado. That's the comparison. Not who's a better player that can name his price. Johnny can pretty much name his price too. He likely named his price last year and management balked. Was that a good move?
|
|
|
06-12-2022, 02:14 PM
|
#3122
|
Franchise Player
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Textcritic
I would be surprised if MacKinnon signs for less than McDavid. He has been one of the lowest paid players for what he produces for several years running, and is a top-three player in the League. He will be 28-years-old when his next contract begins. He needs to ensure that it is the best deal he can get.
Sent from my SM-G986W using Tapatalk
|
I won't be surprised with any AAV between 11 and 13. If they win the cup it's probably closer to 13; if they don't I think there's a decent chance it's under 12.
Interesting to look at some MacKinnon comps:
Barkov is 1 day younger. Over 3 seasons MacKinnon has been good for about 40 more assists (half EVS, half PP). Barkov plays about 40 seconds less per game; 0:25 less on PP and 1:30 more SH, so nearly 2 mins less EV+PPTOI
Barkov has played mostly with Verhaege/Duclair past 2 years; Dadonov/Huberdeau the year before. Comparing with Rantanen/Landeskog probably accounts for most of those ~13 assists per year...
Matthews is 2 years younger. Pt production similar, but Matthews scores lots more goals. Similar TOI; Matthews actually gets less PPTOI. Both Matthews and Barkov are much better at faceoffs (55% vs. NM 45%).
Obviously McDavid's stats are in a different stratosphere, but there's also a ton of caveats.
Which is all to say there could be arguments that MacKinnon is closer to Matthews and Barkov than McDavid...though I'd still pay him 8x13M without hesitation. At this moment factoring contracts I'd still have MacKinnon #2 (after Makar), but I have to begrudgingly rank McDavid over Barkov, as I now have bigger question marks about Barkov's game-breaking ability in the playoffs.
|
|
|
06-12-2022, 02:15 PM
|
#3123
|
Acerbic Cyberbully
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: back in Chilliwack
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by chedder
And yet here we are sitting on pins and needles waiting and hoping the Flames don't lose the only star we've had since Iginla and the player that is directly responsible for 90% of the team's offense. That won't be happening in Colorado. That's the comparison. Not who's a better player that can name his price. Johnny can pretty much name his price too. He likely named his price last year and management balked. Was that a good move?
|
There is no uncertainty at all that MacKinnon will continue to be one of the most dominant forwards in the NHL after his next contract. At this time last year, the same could not be said about Gaudreau. That is the difference; that is why the comparison doesn't work; that is why your attempt to depict this as a huge mistake for Flames management is so obviously transparent.
Sent from my SM-G986W using Tapatalk
|
|
|
The Following User Says Thank You to Textcritic For This Useful Post:
|
|
06-12-2022, 02:36 PM
|
#3124
|
#1 Goaltender
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Textcritic
There is no uncertainty at all that MacKinnon will continue to be one of the most dominant forwards in the NHL after his next contract. At this time last year, the same could not be said about Gaudreau. That is the difference; that is why the comparison doesn't work; that is why your attempt to depict this as a huge mistake for Flames management is so obviously transparent.
Sent from my SM-G986W using Tapatalk
|
Never no uncertainty. Especially for a player that's missed over 60 games in his career. Not trying to be opaque about the Flames miscalculation of the situation if Johnny walks for nothing. It's not a huge mistake for management at this point. But there is potential.
|
|
|
06-12-2022, 05:43 PM
|
#3125
|
First Line Centre
|
Came to check on the signing status of Chucky and Gaudreau...learned that McKinnon, is good and will get paid next year (maybe even this summer) and is still only the second best player on the Avs.
__________________
Go Flames Go
|
|
|
The Following 13 Users Say Thank You to tkflames For This Useful Post:
|
442scotty,
Badgers Nose,
bdubbs,
BeltlineFan,
Cycling76er,
gvitaly,
Hey Connor, It's Mess,
Hockey_Ninja,
mdubz,
MegaErtz,
Press Level,
Sheva #7,
SnipeShow
|
06-12-2022, 05:53 PM
|
#3126
|
Powerplay Quarterback
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: winnipeg
|
still trying to figure out how the flyers an fit Gaudreau into their salary cap
|
|
|
06-12-2022, 06:57 PM
|
#3127
|
Powerplay Quarterback
|
Seems like JVR is the obvious solution. 7M cap, winger, one year left. 4M in salary, 24 goals, shouldn’t be too hard to find a buyer if they throw in something which I’m sure they are glad too if they sign Gaudreau.
|
|
|
06-12-2022, 07:18 PM
|
#3128
|
#1 Goaltender
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by tkflames
Came to check on the signing status of Chucky and Gaudreau...learned that McKinnon, is good and will get paid next year (maybe even this summer) and is still only the second best player on the Avs.
|
You're expecting something in June? That's your mistake.
|
|
|
06-12-2022, 07:27 PM
|
#3129
|
Acerbic Cyberbully
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: back in Chilliwack
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by OptimalTates
Seems like JVR is the obvious solution. 7M cap, winger, one year left. 4M in salary, 24 goals, shouldn’t be too hard to find a buyer if they throw in something which I’m sure they are glad too if they sign Gaudreau.
|
They still need to fill out their roster. Even swapping vanReimsdyk out for Gaudreau, they will be bringing more money in, because he is not signing anywhere for $7.0 m. Then they also need to fill out another four or five roster spots. Especially given how they finished the season, I just don't think Philadelphia is in the running.
Sent from my SM-G986W using Tapatalk
Last edited by Textcritic; 06-12-2022 at 07:47 PM.
|
|
|
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Textcritic For This Useful Post:
|
|
06-12-2022, 07:41 PM
|
#3130
|
Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Vancouver
|
Whatever team signs Gaudreau is getting a franchise player for a few years. GMs aren't always rational when it come to the silly season. The Flyers would have some figuring out to do, but they will have all summer to sort it out if they go that route.
Not that I think Gaudreau is leaving for sure. If he does re-sign, I don't think we will hear about it until after the Cup is awarded.
__________________
"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
|
|
|
06-12-2022, 08:20 PM
|
#3131
|
First Line Centre
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction
Whatever team signs Gaudreau is getting a franchise player for a few years. GMs aren't always rational when it come to the silly season. The Flyers would have some figuring out to do, but they will have all summer to sort it out if they go that route.
Not that I think Gaudreau is leaving for sure. If he does re-sign, I don't think we will hear about it until after the Cup is awarded.
|
I agree that teams and GM's may do whatever it takes to sign Johnny and might be willing to make bad decisions to get him. But will Johnny leave Calgary to sign with a team that needs to "spend the summer" figuring it out? Any team that offers him 7 years at or north of $11 mil a year and also needs to move players out to fit him better be a very good team or I think Johnny will just pass on that team. IMO there are only a few real threats to sign him and for the most part these teams can bring back most of their team and are already a team that is good or on the rise
Anaheim
LA
Nashville
New Jersey
Detroit
Teams like Buffalo, Ottawa, Seattle, Arizona, Columbus may be a threat but it would take a few extra million total dollars from these team before Johnny leaves Calgary to play on teams this bad or other Canadian teams with even higher taxes.
I think players want to get paid more than anything but they also don't want to play on teams that aren't just awful year in year out either.
Almost every other team in the league has other players they value very much and just don't have cap space to out bid Calgary
|
|
|
06-12-2022, 08:34 PM
|
#3132
|
First Line Centre
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by OptimalTates
Seems like JVR is the obvious solution. 7M cap, winger, one year left. 4M in salary, 24 goals, shouldn’t be too hard to find a buyer if they throw in something which I’m sure they are glad too if they sign Gaudreau.
|
I’m sure philly would be a dream for Johnny to play for similar to Tavares signing with the leafs. But Tavares didn’t just sign with Toronto because he had leafs pjs when he was a kid. Guys like Mathews marner nylander rielly probably were just as big a factor as anything.
Philly has nobody.
|
|
|
06-12-2022, 09:15 PM
|
#3133
|
Franchise Player
|
Wonder what Mamma and Papa Gaudreau think the idea of John playing for Torts?
|
|
|
06-12-2022, 09:49 PM
|
#3134
|
Franchise Player
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by chedder
Never no uncertainty. Especially for a player that's missed over 60 games in his career. Not trying to be opaque about the Flames miscalculation of the situation if Johnny walks for nothing. It's not a huge mistake for management at this point. But there is potential.
|
Injuries are a slightly higher concern with MacKinnon than most other players, but his play when on the ice absolutely isn't. I don't recall his specific injury history, but there is also a luxury to running away in the standings that you can rest players with minor injuries that might otherwise play if they needed to.
As for Johnny, we really need to see how the next ~5 seasons play out before we can know how good it really was to sign/not sign him. If he mirrors his last 5 seasons (1 exceptional, 2 very good/great, 2 mediocre) I'm not sure it will be good value for an 8 figure AAV.
|
|
|
06-12-2022, 09:56 PM
|
#3135
|
Franchise Player
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Van Island
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macho0978
I’m sure philly would be a dream for Johnny to play for similar to Tavares signing with the leafs. But Tavares didn’t just sign with Toronto because he had leafs pjs when he was a kid. Guys like Mathews marner nylander rielly probably were just as big a factor as anything.
Philly has nobody.
|
Philly has the opposite of no one. That team is such a mess. If Johnny wants to go there it is only because he wants to go home and we never had a chance.
|
|
|
06-13-2022, 07:29 AM
|
#3136
|
Franchise Player
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMike
Philly has the opposite of no one. That team is such a mess. If Johnny wants to go there it is only because he wants to go home and we never had a chance.
|
I think if Johnny signs anywhere but Calgary it will be for that reason. I don't think it will be because Calgary didn't offer him enough.
I expect Johnny is still wrestling with with the question of where he wants to spend the next chapter of his life.
He knows he'll get paid where ever he chooses.
|
|
|
06-13-2022, 07:59 AM
|
#3137
|
Franchise Player
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMike
Philly has the opposite of no one. That team is such a mess. If Johnny wants to go there it is only because he wants to go home and we never had a chance.
|
He was actually born in New Jersey and playing there would be less than 2 hours from home. The Devils are the threat.
|
|
|
06-13-2022, 08:23 AM
|
#3138
|
Fearmongerer
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Wondering when # became hashtag and not a number sign.
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by edslunch
He was actually born in New Jersey and playing there would be less than 2 hours from home. The Devils are the threat.
|
Philly is less than an hour from JG's hometown.
Newark is further iirc.
__________________
|
|
|
06-13-2022, 08:25 AM
|
#3139
|
Franchise Player
|
Philly is the closest and his favorite team growing up.
NJ is a threat though, IMO. Lots of high profile young players (especially C's), a nice new arena, east coast, willing to spend, way less travel...
|
|
|
06-13-2022, 08:43 AM
|
#3140
|
Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Springbank
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by edslunch
He was actually born in New Jersey and playing there would be less than 2 hours from home. The Devils are the threat.
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by transplant99
Philly is less than an hour from JG's hometown.
Newark is further iirc.
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy
Philly is the closest and his favorite team growing up.
NJ is a threat though, IMO. Lots of high profile young players (especially C's), a nice new arena, east coast, willing to spend, way less travel...
|
Yeah, it wouldn’t even surprise me if he hated NJD growing up, though Philly has plenty of hated rival teams.
NJD makes sense from a team on the rise perspective. Philly is just the hometown kid coming home. With Tavares arguably the Leafs was both.
|
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:35 AM.
|
|