Matthew Tkachuk & Johnny Gaudreau Signing Watch Thread

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

I don’t get this. Can the owners actually go to players and ask for money back at the end of the CBA.



It’s not the players fault the owners didn’t push for more escrow. The CBA is signed and agreed to by both sides.

The CBA is based on a 50/50 split of revenues. They players got wayyyyy more than 50% during COVID, thus the large debt they owe the owners.

[boogerz]

Originally Posted by Muta

Trade Zadorov and Backlund for picks, boom - bunch of money freed. Easy peasy!

Sutter being able to give the Backlund/Coleman line most of the d-zone starts and all of the tough defensive match-ups frees up the Johnny/Tkachuk line do what they do best.

If anyone needs to be traded to make space for Gaudreau and Tkachuk, it's Monahan. He's barely producing with easy match-ups and PP time.



$9M/year x 8 years for both Gaudreau and Tkachuk is fine if they want to stay in Calgary.

[Dude Where's Makar?]

Would 8 years at 8/8.25 million not work?

Couturier - 8 years at 7.75
B. Tkachuk - 8 years at 8.2
Svechnikov - 8 years at 7.75
Suzuki - 8 years at 7.875
Barkov - 8 years at 10

(some of the guys above may have signed 7 year contracts, I'm just going off what I remember for the term)

[Matty81]

Tkachuk is going to be tough and hold them hostage, he and his family negotiate tough and he has a ton of leverage to just take his qualifying offer and become a UFA. Expecting they will land on a longer deal but the price will be higher than we probably expect because Tkachuk holds all the cards the way his RFA deal terms have been structured. I could see him getting 9 mil plus.

Johnny's contract should already be done or he should have been traded while he had some value, I don't know what is going on there, to me it is poor management that it has been left this late. The only thing I can think of is maybe both parties agreed to negotiate after xmas once he has another half season under his belt to help really nail down fair value and understand the cap outlook. But that doesn't make a lot of sense considering how many years he has played. At this stage from an asset management perspective the flames need to basically pay the price he is asking and lock him down as long as it's not over 10. If he walks as a UFA heads should roll.

[blankall]

It's unfortunate timing. After last year there was no way either player was letting those stats influence their long term deal. Gaudreau was at an all time low in terms of stats over the just two years, and he was playing above ppg under Sutter at the end of last year. He was clearly going to wait until his numbers rebounded. I'm hoping we can get both for 8.5 each, and the the numbers will be slightly lower for Gaudreau, in comparison to players putting up similar numbers, due to his lack of defensive game.. Maybe I'm just dreaming though.

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by boogerz

If anyone needs to be traded to make space for Gaudreau and Tkachuk, it's Monahan. He's barely producing with easy match-ups and PP time. .

The coach appears to disagree with you. Sutter has said a number of times that he's working with Monny to allow him to come back after his injuries and develop in a measured way (or words to that effect) and that's why he's on that line.

[gvitaly]

The great start to the year is really nice, but I actually want to see what those players do in the playoffs. I get that Gaudreau needs to be extended before then, but I hope it's to a number that starts with an 8.

I wouldn't want to see either player back at a $9.5M price tag. They haven't been game changers consistently enough last year, for me to be comfortable with that kind of a commitment. We had a great first half of the 2018-19 season as well, and then teams adjusted, or the coach's message started wearing thin. That's why the last couple of seasons left me with more questions than answers when it comes to our core.

Also, they are both amazing players, but I think that LW is the easiest position to fill in the NHL. As in elite LWers become available more often than elite Centers/RW. Lwers also seem to be easier to develop, as a lot of offensively talented centers start by playing on the wing at the NHL level. I didn't run the numbers, so that's just my eye test.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Canada 02

sign both 8 x $9.5
maybe Johnny for 7 years

Why would Johnny sign for 7 years?

He'll want and get 8 from the Flames if he signs with them.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

I don’t get this. Can the owners actually go to players and ask for money back at the end of the CBA.

It’s not the players fault the owners didn’t push for more escrow. The CBA is signed and agreed to by both sides.

It doesn't matter. Their share of the pie is also in the CBA and they exceeded it. They should have taken it upon themselves to increase the amount going into escrow.

[djsFlames]

6 x 9.5 Matthew
8 x 9.75 Jonathan.

[dammage79]

Which one remains a Flame after this season?

Only one I imagine.

I have my preference.

Gonna be a tough tough off season.

[Knightslayer]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

6 x 9.5 Matthew
8 x 9.75 Jonathan.

I had to think for 5 minutes who this Jonathan was.

[GranteedEV]

I'd be surprised if either guy gets less than 10M on their next contract.

Gaudreau is going to look at Mitch Marner's AAV and expect more now that Treliving can't strongarm with RFA leverage nonsense.

Tkachuk might have less footing, both from his own production and his RFA situation, but he's still largely in control of his future. The Flames' best source of leverage is team-elected arbitration, but that would walk Tkachuk straight to UFA at age 25. He's producing again under Sutter - probably even gonna have a career year considering he is no longer playing with Backlund and Frolik at 5v5. He's in a cushy spot and he will get paid.

The minute the Flames failed to acquire Eichel, the most sensible course of action became to get major assets in return for these two plus Tanev, Backlund, Coleman, and after paying his signing bonus Lucic. The team's record throws a wrench in the optics there, though. Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

[neo45]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Cap’s gonna start going up again..

This line of thinking is what got Toronto in a lot of trouble.

The cap is going to 82.5 and LIKELY higher but it isn’t a guarantee. We can’t just back the brinks truck up for two guys based on 11 great games

[Roof-Daddy]

Add in Mangiapane and even Kylington is looking like he'll get a substantial raise.

[neo45]

Working in our favor is:

- cap goes up by a million
- Brouwer buyout is gone
- Monahan with one year left is moveable
- Zadorov, Gudbranson, and Pitlick contracts expire which gives flexibility
- Maybe once Lucic’s signing bonus is paid he could be valuable but likely wouldn’t waive

It’ll be a challenge but doesn’t seem impossible to re-sign Johnny, Kylington, Mangiapane long term and fit in Tkachuk’s QO for one year

[blender]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

I'd be surprised if either guy gets less than 10M on their next contract.

Gaudreau is going to look at Mitch Marner's AAV and expect more now that Treliving can't strongarm with RFA leverage nonsense.

Tkachuk might have less footing, both from his own production and his RFA situation, but he's still largely in control of his future. The Flames' best source of leverage is team-elected arbitration, but that would walk Tkachuk straight to UFA at age 25. He's producing again under Sutter - probably even gonna have a career year considering he is no longer playing with Backlund and Frolik at 5v5. He's in a cushy spot and he will get paid.

The minute the Flames failed to acquire Eichel, the most sensible course of action became to get major assets in return for these two plus Tanev, Backlund, Coleman, and after paying his signing bonus Lucic. The team's record throws a wrench in the optics there, though. Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

That is the way to run an NHL team.
No question about it. I think we found our Treliving replacement lurking on CP after all!

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by Muta

Well you could try to get a pick back if possible, instead of nothing.

Keeping a player or getting a 3rd round pick… it’s not 0 value to keep a player… in fact it’s probable that keeping Zadorov for the season actually provides more value than the pick would.

[browna]

Worth revisiting this thread when the Flames lose 3 of 4 or similar…like most things with CP it’s very reactionary depending on the last few games.

JG is a lock. Him not being signed is a bit of a concern. He’s a highly skilled player who can slow down the game. He cares more then many on the team and the Flames will have a huge hole to fill if he bolts.

MT is all smiles when thing go well, but when not, he seems to still be higher maintenance than most. He has a ways to go still in some of his game on and off the ice. Not saying he can’t and won’t get there, but one needs to see a solid season and playoffs from him.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by browna

Worth revisiting this thread when the Flames lose 3 of 4 or similar…like most things with CP it’s very reactionary depending on the last few games.

JG is a lock. Him not being signed is a bit of a concern. He’s a highly skilled player who can slow down the game. He cares more then many on the team and the Flames will have a huge hole to fill if he bolts.

MT is all smiles when thing go well, but when not, he seems to still be higher maintenance than most. He has a ways to go still in some of his game on and off the ice. Not saying he can’t and won’t get there, but one needs to see a solid season and playoffs from him.

Looking at the 2022 UFA list currently, Gaudreau will be the premiere player available if he doesn't sign an extension. The list is likely still going to shrink a little too.

Basically, Gaudreau will have his pick from a number of teams and it will be a massive deal no matter what. I hope that he sees value in continuity and that Calgary has an advantage in that respect, but I have no idea how important that is to him. Having a winning season and playoff run would probably go a long way to convincing him.