Electric vehicle war, is gas soon to be toast?

[socalwingfan]

We have a Prius prime and we set it to charge at 10:00 every night - I would be shocked if this wasn’t standard with any plug- in model

[indes]

My Santa Fe PHEV has a schedule I can set, I only have a level 1 charger though so it takes 10 hours.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Jay's Beagle

This may have been covered previously in this thread although what does your electric bill look like? That is one of the things were I pause when I think of an EV. Yes it may save me on gas although what will it cost in electricity to charge the vehicle.

My power bill went up by about 35 bucks a month. Granted I only charge from 7 PM to 7 AM, Monday to Friday. In order to drive about 400 KM it cost me about 6 dollars. (64 KW times 8.2 cents a KWH)

Next month I start a new job where I will be driving to work everyday. But that parking lot (like a lot of parking lots in Ontario) has free charging, so my fuel costs should go down to basically zero.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

Is it really though? I guess it depends on if it's a gas guzzling SUV, or just a normal Camry or Corolla. You're paying, what $20K premium for an EV? $20K over 10 years is $2,000 of gas per year. At best, I think you end up breaking even, and that's only if you keep the same EV for 10 years.

You save your money on maintenance as well. Maintenance costs are significantly cheaper on an EV. The premium I paid on my vehicle was 18,000 compared to gas model, I think the overall cost increase after rebate was 15K. Made a little cheaper because I got 0 percent financing over 7 years.

Estimates on maintenance are that save about 40 percent on maintenance. This American study (link below) has EV maintenance costs at 6 cents a mile, gas at 10 cents a mile. You would save about 6,400 on maintenance if you drove the vehicle 160,000 KM. You would save about 18,000-20,000 on fuel over 160,000 KM. Add those together, along with my expectation that I will hit 160,000 KM by year 7, and I think I break even in my personal circumstance by year 6.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mot...omparison/amp/

[Erick Estrada]

Tesla as jacked the prices again for the Model 3. The RWD version is up to $59,990 now and no longer qualifies for the subsidy. Elon is probably smarter than me but the Canadian markes isn't the same as the USA as we have less disposable income and $60k for a RWD model is just too much money IMO.

[zamler]

Demand far outstrips supply.

[bagofpucks]

Do the maintenance formulas for EV vs ICE include new batteries after a certain number of years?

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Tesla as jacked the prices again for the Model 3. The RWD version is up to $59,990 now and no longer qualifies for the subsidy. Elon is probably smarter than me but the Canadian markes isn't the same as the USA as we have less disposable income and $60k for a RWD model is just too much money IMO.

As long as demand outstrips supply, this is basic economics.

When there are more EVs on the market, when Tesla has more competition, etc. you may see this change but for now, electric prices are only going up due to the semiconductor shortage from covid supply chain woes.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by bagofpucks

Do the maintenance formulas for EV vs ICE include new batteries after a certain number of years?

On a properly engineered EV they aren't really necessary. Teslas with several hundred thousand miles don't show a lot of degradation.

[bagofpucks]

Awesome, thank you. I knew it was a concern at some point with some EVs, but wasn’t sure if the technology had changed.

[Fuzz]

The Nissan Leaf doesn't(or didn't?) have much for thermal management, so they would overheat and lose capacity. But I think all modern EV's have cooling and heating to keep them in an optimal temperature window to prevent damage.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

On a properly engineered EV they aren't really necessary. Teslas with several hundred thousand miles don't show a lot of degradation.

I think the testing on the Tesla’s show about 5% degradation every 100,000 miles. I saw a study where they drove it for 400,000 miles on a track and the range was 80 percent of what it started at (not sure if the rate was linear). That being said I think people will find that range is vastly overrated as they become more accustomed to EV’s. My EV has a listed range of 385 KM (but you can get a lot more range in city driving). The average person almost never needs that much range in a single day and if you have a level two charger you can get fully charged overnight.

The only time range is an issue is on long trips. But even then if you have the ability to plan it is not that big of a deal. This summer I did Orleans to Niagara Falls (about 600 KM) in about 8 hours, with a lunch and charging stop in Cobourg (this included navigating getting through Toronto in weekday rush hour traffic).

[Hack&Lube]

https://insideevs.com/news/550021/co...-tesla-model3/

Some cold weather testing. The batteries appear to well insulated but charging ability and the range drops in cold but this only shows 1 degree celsius. You call that winter? That's Calgary summer.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

https://insideevs.com/news/550021/co...-tesla-model3/

Some cold weather testing. The batteries appear to well insulated but charging ability and the range drops in cold but this only shows 1 degree celsius. You call that winter? That's Calgary summer.

Here is a study from Norway on cold weather testing.

It basically finds range gets reduced by 18.5% on average and the vehicles charge more slowly.

https://www.naf.no/elbil/aktuelt/elb...90201-04b09b31

[Lubicon]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Here is a study from Norway on cold weather testing.

It basically finds range gets reduced by 18.5% on average and the vehicles charge more slowly.

https://www.naf.no/elbil/aktuelt/elb...90201-04b09b31

Slower charging in cold weather will be an additional challenge for Canada’s electrical grid as the size of the EV fleet grows. Not insurmountable but a challenge none the less.

[underGRADFlame]

So I’m contemplating upgrading from my 2018 Fusion Energi to a 2022 Tucson PHEV, I had been hoping the someone would have released a midsized ev or phev truck by now but I guess I’ll wait a few more years to get a truck again.

Anyone driven the new Tucson of Santa Fe phev?

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by underGRADFlame

So I’m contemplating upgrading from my 2018 Fusion Energi to a 2022 Tucson PHEV, I had been hoping the someone would have released a midsized ev or phev truck by now but I guess I’ll wait a few more years to get a truck again.

Anyone driven the new Tucson of Santa Fe phev?

A rivian R1T is probably midsized, but is probably still hard to get your hands on one.

[I_H8_Crawford]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

A rivian R1T is probably midsized, but is probably still hard to get your hands on one.

It looks like a really cool truck too:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYrunRy8hmw

[underGRADFlame]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

A rivian R1T is probably midsized, but is probably still hard to get your hands on one.

$90k for a truck IMO is ridiculous.

I had attempted to factory order a 2022 Tucson PHEV this week but after being told it was good, was told this AM that the factory stopped taking orders for 2022s and would have to order a 2023, which has no specs out yet!

This market is crazy right now.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by I_H8_Crawford

It looks like a really cool truck too:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYrunRy8hmw

I’ve watched two minutes and I’m sold. I can’t wait to be able to buy a 5 year old one of these.