12-08-2024, 03:31 PM
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#3521
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Calgary
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Fair market value for Andersson long-term is probably north of $8M AAV.
Quote:
Originally Posted by transplant99
Why not?
Thats an anchor on each of your top 2 pairings...then let the plethora of young guys sort it out over the next couple years.
I think Andersson wanted to see what this thing looked like before deciding on staying or going, and truth is they just need a couple(big) pieces up front to be truly competitive as it looks now.
If something like 7X7 is enough to interest him in staying....get it done July 1.
Alernatively, if he fetches one of those "big" pieces up front, only then do you move him or he shoots for the stars in the $$ part of things IMO
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12-08-2024, 03:40 PM
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#3522
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Participant 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1qqaaz
Well at least shipping players off results in more picks and prospects, and more ice time to develop younger players.
If they trade away veterans, and still end in the mushy middle, at least they're have the other picks. They'd also have a somewhat competitive team that is good for development.
If they trade away their veterans, and finish near the bottom, then they finally get the long needed lottery pick and a chance for a true elite center.
Seems fine either way.
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That’s where I am with it. If they keep the trajectory they’re on and finish at the bottom because of it? Great, high pick. If they remain in the mushy middle? Great, that means the young guys we have can still carry a team.
There’s definitely upsides in either scenario.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dammage79
For clarity, I'm excited that the kids and some of the new young acquisitions the Flames have sprinkled into the line up have pushed this team to where they are. I get it.
I just don't share the idea that staying in the mushy middle is somehow a silver lining due to the performance of the goaltending and some of the kids. The Flames still need to draft or trade for a young long term center.
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It’s definitely a silver lining because it means Wolf is legitimate. As much as some select people want to say any old ECHL goalie will do, goaltending ultimately contributes more to championships than any other single position. They should still look after a center, but we shouldn’t be so ho hum over having one of the best goaltenders in the league at just 23 years old.
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12-08-2024, 03:54 PM
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#3523
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheese
I dont see 12-13 teams bypassing the Flames to get to the bottom 5. I Hope we get into 8 or 9, but that could be very tough as well. Unless our goalies start crapping the bed they will hold us in most games.

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How on earth has Brunette not been fired yet?
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12-08-2024, 03:58 PM
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#3524
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch Root
Yeah, if Andersson wants to sign and stay, and the price is right, then fine - he is a leader, and an ambassador, as well as a great hockey player.
But big picture, I think the Flames have to look at is as: they should keep one of Andersson or Weegar, but not both.
And Weegar is already signed long term at a good price, and seems more desiring to stay. So that brings us back to needing to move Andersson.
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Normally I wouldn't agree as most top teams have a true #1 and a true #3 for pairings but the Flames aren't ready to challenge for a couple of years and with some of the defensive prospects in the pipeline I think you roll the dice if you can improve the center position. But the return has to be really really good to trade Andersson.
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12-08-2024, 03:58 PM
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#3525
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus
Normally I wouldn't agree as most top teams have a true #1 and a true #3 for pairings but the Flames aren't ready to challenge for a couple of years and with some of the defensive prospects in the pipeline I think you roll the dice if you can improve the center position. But the return has to be really really good to trade Andersson.
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Normally I wouldn't agree either. It is simply a function of where they are in the rebuild.
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12-08-2024, 04:04 PM
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#3526
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Franchise Player
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It’s easy to say sign him to a 8x8 which will come with a nmc and let the chips fall. As we saw with Trouba you can’t just get rid of him when he doesn’t fit your team anymore.
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12-08-2024, 04:20 PM
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#3527
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dammage79
So from what I'm reading today in this thread is, it doesn't matter that the Flames remain in the mushy middle so long as they dont remain in the mushy middle the same way they've done it for decades?
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So let me get this straight.
The team that won the Pacific Division in 2019 was in the mushy middle?
The team that won the division in 2022 was in the mushy middle?
The team that was doing a full rebuild in 2014, and drafted 4th overall, was in the mushy middle?
The team that made the Stanley Cup finals in 2004 was in the mushy middle?
The team that missed the playoffs for seven consecutive years before that was in the mushy middle?
It seems to me the word ‘middle’ is doing some mighty heavy lifting here. Apparently the only teams that aren't in the ‘mushy middle’ are the Stanley Cup winner and the team that drafts 1st overall. If that's your standard, you'd better get used to being mushy, because 30 out of 32 teams are exactly that every year.
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12-08-2024, 04:39 PM
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#3528
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Owner
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dammage79
So from what I'm reading today in this thread is, it doesn't matter that the Flames remain in the mushy middle so long as they dont remain in the mushy middle the same way they've done it for decades?
Man that sure feels like some lipstick on the same bloated dead pig to me.
Mushy middle is the mushy middle no matter how they get there.
The entire point of not being in the mushy middle is to draft a top 5 talent and build around that, can't achieve the ideal retool or rebuild without that part of the plan.
Lots of runway left in the season to see where this roster metes out, but it's looking super mushy. And that's not a good thing, even if theyre going at it from the other end of the build perspective.
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First off you can think whatever you want.
But to me the mushy middle that everyone complains about would be just missing out on the playoffs at the cap, and without the asset trades last year, with an aging team that convinced themselves all summer that they could win it all!
That's the painful team that annoys most.
This team traded 5-7 key players, added picks for three straight drafts. Drafted well. Have promoted young players.
When all of those things go right I just don't see the point in being pissed at the team for having some of those young pieces exceeding expectations and making them a better team than we expected.
It's been a fun ride.
Enjoy it.
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12-08-2024, 04:47 PM
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#3529
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First Line Centre
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The Flames have one of the worst attendance records in the NHL, and most games have been a low-scoring bore that relies on the goalies making countless stops to keep them in it followed by a late comeback.
More than a handful of the games/Flames points have been the result of crazy circumstances:
- crazy comeback in Vancouver opener
- 2 overturned Oilers goals leading to a comeback
- last minute comeback against Pittsburgh
- overturned 3-1 Montreal goal leading to a comeback
- 2-goal comebacks against Boston & Buffalo to get a point in each
- etc.
It's been boring hockey (Wolf aside - most exciting goalie in the NHL imo) mixed with crazy luck gifting them annoying points.
Losing out on that top 10 pick and then having to give away an 11-16 pick would be the worst case scenario this season.
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12-08-2024, 04:52 PM
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#3530
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Powerplay Quarterback
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You must be watching different games than me. This is the most entertaining season we’ve had in many. Very fun to watch and to cheer for. To each their own I guess.
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12-08-2024, 04:53 PM
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#3531
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Fearmongerer
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Wondering when # became hashtag and not a number sign.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freeway
Fair market value for Andersson long-term is probably north of $8M AAV.
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You're probably right....I'm just cheap.
__________________
Quote:
The Jets aren’t winning anything. They have no #1C or D.
They hardly look like any contender.
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Paulie Wingnuts
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12-08-2024, 04:56 PM
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#3532
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinL_NHL
The Flames have one of the worst attendance records in the NHL,
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Just googled this as I was curious, Flames average attendance for this season is 17,242 (89% Capacity)
Making them 20th, however, 6 teams ahead of them all are under 18,000
Far from the worst,
I have attend 4 games, all of them had decent crowds.
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12-08-2024, 05:20 PM
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#3533
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Vancouver
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I'm a big believer that rebuilding teams still need solid veterans leading the way. A lot of rebuilding teams sell off their vets in the early stages, but once the new core is in place, they dip into the free agent market to add the vets. I really think that is a key piece to a successful rebuild and teams that get stuck in perpetual rebuilds is because they have trouble luring the veterans back.
It's difficult for small market Canadian teams that aren't as attractive to good free agents. That's why I think if someone like Andersson is willing to stick it through, you might be better off keeping him. Because when it comes time to add someone like him, good luck with that. It also helps if you have a "generational" prospect in your stable because free agents with sign on in those situations regardless, but I wouldn't bank on the Flames getting someone like McKenna or Dupont.
It obviously depends on how confident you are that Andersson can be a key player in a few years and if you want to take that risk with him specifically.
__________________
"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
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12-08-2024, 05:39 PM
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#3534
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Calgary
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The Flames' attendance in the context of where the team is at and where the local economy is at is perfectly reasonable, I would say.
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12-08-2024, 05:43 PM
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#3535
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#1 Goaltender
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction
I'm a big believer that rebuilding teams still need solid veterans leading the way. A lot of rebuilding teams sell off their vets in the early stages, but once the new core is in place, they dip into the free agent market to add the vets. I really think that is a key piece to a successful rebuild and teams that get stuck in perpetual rebuilds is because they have trouble luring the veterans back.
It's difficult for small market Canadian teams that aren't as attractive to good free agents. That's why I think if someone like Andersson is willing to stick it through, you might be better off keeping him. Because when it comes time to add someone like him, good luck with that. It also helps if you have a "generational" prospect in your stable because free agents with sign on in those situations regardless, but I wouldn't bank on the Flames getting someone like McKenna or Dupont.
It obviously depends on how confident you are that Andersson can be a key player in a few years and if you want to take that risk with him specifically.
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The Flames already have Huberdeau, Kadri and Weegar as veteran players who are on long term contracts. Turning Andersson into assets would be a smart move IMO, he should fetch a boatload and doesn't really fit the rebuild timeline anyway.
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12-08-2024, 06:18 PM
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#3536
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First Line Centre
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[QUOTE=Jay Random;9270851]So let me get this straight.
The team that won the Pacific Division in 2019 was in the mushy middle?
The team that won the division in 2022 was in the mushy middle?
The team that was doing a full rebuild in 2014, and drafted 4th overall, was in the mushy middle?
The team that made the Stanley Cup finals in 2004 was in the mushy middle?
The team that missed the playoffs for seven consecutive years before that was in the mushy middle?
At any point in your above examples did you feel like the Flames were a solid annual contender? I moved here in '97 and not once since moving here have I though the flames are that.
This is what they should be building towards, Consistency will bring fans, not make the playoffs once and miss next 4 years, win the division and wash out in first round etc.
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12-08-2024, 06:44 PM
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#3537
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#1 Goaltender
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Guys don’t forget Craig has seen at least half a dozen offers on Andersson and hasn’t accepted a single one. Offers that were already better than the Hanifin trade.
I wouldn’t sleep on it being disappointing, he’s signed right now to a contract that’s essentially 40% less than what he’s worth on the open market Now retain on that for a team looking to push for a cup and you’ve got a recipe for absolute money.
He remains the most talked about asset amongst the GM’s.
I honestly don’t see him resigning with Calgary (personal guess) and he’s currently a favorite flame of mine. I’d imagine the only thing to get Rasmus to entertain an extension at this point would be a lengthy playoff run.
I’d expect an A level center as the cornerstone piece Craig is looking for in any trade.
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12-08-2024, 06:47 PM
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#3538
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo
First off you can think whatever you want.
But to me the mushy middle that everyone complains about would be just missing out on the playoffs at the cap, and without the asset trades last year, with an aging team that convinced themselves all summer that they could win it all!
That's the painful team that annoys most.
This team traded 5-7 key players, added picks for three straight drafts. Drafted well. Have promoted young players.
When all of those things go right I just don't see the point in being pissed at the team for having some of those young pieces exceeding expectations and making them a better team than we expected.
It's been a fun ride.
Enjoy it.
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I'm not pissed. I just find it fascinating that there's an acceptance that the Flames may finish exactly where a lot of fans for years and years have been clamouring is the worst spot to finish when you're trying to build a winner. And that's middle.of the road. It's the entirety of frustration from the fanbase as long as I've been a fan.
So I'm a little surprised at the acceptance.
Like I said afterwards. I'm happy the youth movement is happening, well to a certain extent it is. Wolf is found money regardless of standings. It's a blessing he's ours. It's too bad the team has to establish a performance baseline before they can get that top line talent via the draft.
It's the whole point of the excersize of the retool. Or at least I thought it was.
Anyways, I'm not pissed about it, just observing that if the Flames end up in the same spot we've all hated for years (mushy middle, not top ten, not bottom ten) that's islets acceptable because the kids are alright.
I understand, the organization isn't going to tank, they're not going to allow the youth to develop in a tanking culture. But it's just same same, but different! But same.
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12-08-2024, 06:58 PM
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#3539
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Royle9
Guys don’t forget Craig has seen at least half a dozen offers on Andersson and hasn’t accepted a single one. Offers that were already better than the Hanifin trade.
I wouldn’t sleep on it being disappointing, he’s signed right now to a contract that’s essentially 40% less than what he’s worth on the open market Now retain on that for a team looking to push for a cup and you’ve got a recipe for absolute money.
He remains the most talked about asset amongst the GM’s.
I honestly don’t see him resigning with Calgary (personal guess) and he’s currently a favorite flame of mine. I’d imagine the only thing to get Rasmus to entertain an extension at this point would be a lengthy playoff run.
I’d expect an A level center as the cornerstone piece Craig is looking for in any trade.
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Just because of the lingering conditions on the pick from the Monny trade, I don't know if the Flames can make a good trade happen for a young top end C before the deadline.
Plus as much as a lot of think it's a sure thing that Razz is going to hit the road because of the status of the roster and what it's going to be moving forward, I'm not confident he will leave either.
So it'll be interesting to watch the remainder of the season unfold because if Andersson chooses to stay. There goes a bullet in the chamber to acquire that center they want, that we want. And likely the best bullet considering that the standings aren't really in our drafting favor.
__________________
"Everybody's so desperate to look smart that nobody is having fun anymore" -Jackie Redmond
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12-08-2024, 06:59 PM
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#3540
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Powerplay Quarterback
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Royle9
Offers that were already better than the Hanifin trade.
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I would f'n hope so.
__________________
I don't get your hate. I have 3 degrees I ain't dumb. My dog is well known in a 12 block rural radious.
Your just a.bias idiot that knows nothing it seems.
- combustiblefuel
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