Arena negotiation discussion. UPD: Flames release their proposal

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by bob-loblaw

A few random theories:

1. The Flames want the Edmonton deal on the arena, but more importantly they also want to develop the area around it. It's pulled out from under them with the CalgaryNEXT proposal and there's no opportunity for it in this concept with the East Village and CMLC.

2. This is probably giving them CSEC too much credit, but maybe they're just biding their time until the Olympic bid. There's bound to be additional funding from the other levels of government that would get thrown towards a new arena and redevelopment of the area (e.g. Athletes Village then in turn condos). There's no way they would demolish the Saddledome if we won the bid.

3. I wouldn't be surprised if Nenshi turns his new recently released area concept into a component of an Olympic bid. He looks like a champ if it happens.

4. The arena thing has stagnated for several years and it's always been one of King's responsibilities. He has never come off looking prepared, cohesive, or even done a good job of giving their perspective in public, let alone in private for all we know. Perhaps the owners have realized he's a roadblock to getting it done and they're ready to throw someone else on the project. I can hardly wait to see how he presents their proposal.

When does the Olympic bid come to a head? A dose of provincial and federal funding could make this problem go away.

[sureLoss]

More rumored demands by CSEC:

https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/new...ticle36276378/

The Calgary Flames, in negotiations with local politicians over a new $555-million arena, demanded the city pick up the tab for extra police needed at games and let people ride transit to the facility for free when the team is playing, according to multiple municipal sources.

The requests would put a multimillion-dollar dent in the city's finances and could result in higher taxes. Waiving transit fares on game days, for example, would mean giving up about $10-million in revenue annually, according to one of the sources. Calgary would then have to fill this gap, perhaps by cutting transit services to other parts of the city or raising property taxes, the source said. Covering the cost of extra policing would also amount to an operating subsidy, according to the source who provided the detail about security expenses to The Globe and Mail.

Calgary bureaucrats had been providing updates to councillors throughout the negotiations between the city and the team's owners, municipal sources told The Globe. The updates were always verbal, frustrating some councillors because it made it difficult to keep track of the negotiations.

The Flames' owners, according to one source, also wanted the city to pay for most of the arena's construction. Further, the ownership group demanded an exemption from property taxes and rent, the source said.

[TheScorpion]

Waiving the cost of transit on game days? Are they out of their minds?

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Waiving the cost of transit on game days? Are they out of their minds?

I could understand the request for playoff games, if for no other reason than to try and cut down on drinking and driving, but for an entire season? It's almost as if they have no intention of being reasonable.

I'm done with them. They'll receive no quarter from me.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

More rumored demands by CSEC:

https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/new...ticle36276378/

Jesus... Mayor Nenshi wasn't kidding when he said the Flames demands were “eminently unreasonable”. Heck, if anything he's underselling how crazy their demands are.

[Freeway]

They don't want to pay property taxes, AND they want concessions that would probably raise everybody else's.

[theinfinitejar]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

More rumored demands by CSEC:

https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/new...ticle36276378/

Looking more and more like it's City Council that should be the ones walking away from these clowns.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

More rumored demands by CSEC:

https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/new...ticle36276378/

These make sense as demands by CSEC, because Nenshi specifically mentioned the cost of police and running extra transit in his media event this morning.

[Stay Golden]

Originally Posted by Par

If they don't get a deal they like, they might just wait until the Olympic bid.

That would be nice if it would work but a attractive bid is a fairy tale, fools gold.
Olympic bid from our city this Mayor seriously lmao. Nenshi is more apt to tell the Olymic comittee they should pay Calgary to host it here. Dude needs to get knocked off his perch.

If he isn't more reasonable with the Flames I will say right now they will leave within 5 years I have no doubt about that. Or the current ownership will sit down with Gary and find a new buyer.
Nenchi's ridiculous comment on the news tonight about because they are proposing 1/3 of the cost that they should share in Flames revenue by way of as he said "we think there is profit to made there". Translation He expects to charge the Flames rent smh.
He is crying we have to provide police and EMT's boo boo little man boo hoo.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by edslunch

When does the Olympic bid come to a head? A dose of provincial and federal funding could make this problem go away.

The decision on who gets the games comes in July 2019. I would suspect that the bid would have to be in at least a year before? Not exactly sure on that though.

[sureLoss]

To be fair without the context of how or when these demands were made in the negotiation process, it is a little hard to judge their merits.

[bob-loblaw]

Why doesn't CSEC just ask the city to give them Calgary Transit too?

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

To be fair without the context of how or when these demands were made in the negotiation process, it is a little hard to judge their merits.

Uh.

[Svartsengi]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

More rumored demands by CSEC:

https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/new...ticle36276378/

If that is true I want the current ownership to sell the team to someone locally and go join Murray Edwards on his little tax dodge of an island. Murray left Calgary and Alberta to avoid paying taxes to support infrastructure and now wants a free ride on our dime.

[Flame On]

Originally Posted by stone hands

"I defy anyone to name me one thing Calgarians have to be more proud of than the flames" is probably the most egregious thing he has ever said to be honest, and he has said a lot of stupid things(every time he opens his mouth)

Oh I don't know how about multitudes of service personnel like the Calgary Highlanders in WWII or even a simple first responder that is killed on duty. Sheesh! Its really quite simple a task Ken.

[monkeyman]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

To be fair without the context of how or when these demands were made in the negotiation process, it is a little hard to judge their merits.

I wonder if this was part of the CalgaryNext proposal. There is a major lack of parking in that proposal and shuttle busses are a part of that plan. Maybe CSEC's grand plan for shuttle busses was to have the city provide and pay for all of the shuttles in the form of free fairs?

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by Svartsengi

If that is true I want the current ownership to sell the team to someone locally and go join Murray Edwards on his little tax dodge of an island. Murray left Calgary and Alberta to avoid paying taxes to support infrastructure and now wants a free ride on our dime.

yeah, quite the patriot isn't he...?

[stone hands]

Originally Posted by Flame On

Oh I don't know how about multitudes of service personnel like the Calgary Highlanders in WWII or even a simple first responder that is killed on duty. Sheesh! Its really quite simple a task Ken.

Full disclosure this was Eric Francis on the fan960 this afternoon

[nik-]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

More rumored demands by CSEC:

https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/new...ticle36276378/

This can't be serious.

Even as someone who thinks the Flames have acted brutally out of touch in this, I can't believe they would get to something at that level.

[etdpratt]

As someone who hasn't historically had a strong opinion on Ken King, I have to say he comes across as extremely arrogant and that obnoxious smile he gives after some of his statements are doing a disservice to what I believe is a position with some reason.

From the perspective of the Flames, they are currently operating at the saddle dome without the additional levy of property taxes. As dumb as Ken King sounds explaining it, I do see a scenario where the city's proposal doesn't make financial sense for the flames where they can breakeven on this investment in a reasonable amount of time. From a strictly business perspective, this stadium should be beneficial to both parties and I just don't see a scenario where the city's offer is better than how the flames currently operate at the dome.

Today the flames can charge market rate for their tickets and sell out all their games. With ticket tax, if the flames are unable to capitalize in this current economic environment of an additional ticket tax, they will be taking a decent hit on their operating profits compared to how the currently operate at the dome. The risk is all on the flames here.

Without going into more details on additional tangible and intangible value being brought to the city by the flames (i.e. employment, charity, major city status, etc...) I can understand why as a business owner I would be upset that this seems to go somewhat unnoticed by the city. Or the fact that a city like Calgary will need to make investments down the road to upgrade it's entertainment infrastructure that promotes continuous growth and outside investment. The saddle dome I believe most people on here would agree is outdated.

The last thing I wanted to do was come off as a flames spokesperson, but after reading all of the comments going the other way, I don't think it's fair to say the city should breakeven or significantly gain on the investment as is outlined in their proposal, all while ignoring the additional value that the flames bring to the city and aren't accounted for that in their (the city's) version of ROI.

This all being said, KK needs to be replaced.