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Old 07-10-2018, 10:37 AM   #21
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Forever a Flame is the dumbest thing.
Couldn't agree more. I know they're not the only organization to have a program like that but it's obnoxious everywhere. Retire the number or don't retire the number. None of this "in between" nonsense.
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Old 07-10-2018, 10:42 AM   #22
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But, what about Kent Nilsson? Can we put both their names on the jersey?
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Old 07-10-2018, 10:44 AM   #23
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Theo is the reason I started watching hockey. I wore #14 every time I stepped onto the ice from my first peewee game, playing jr b, and even a few months ago in a beer league.

Nobody has worn the number since he left, just make it official already.
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Old 07-10-2018, 10:46 AM   #24
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But, what about Kent Nilsson? Can we put both their names on the jersey?
No, Theo is remembered as showing up when it matters the most...the playoffs. In 77 playoff games, he had 79 points.

Nilsson is remembered as being the Magic Man...all the talent in the world but always a disappearing act in the playoffs. I don't equate Nilsson as ever being the face and heart of the Flames or enduring himself to the fans as Theo did.
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Old 07-10-2018, 10:51 AM   #25
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There was no dismissal there, he praised Johnny. Sure he said it was a tougher game when he played but what is wrong with that? It was. Gretzky has said the same thing when talking about McDavid, he must be a self centred jerk as well. Or it could just be a player saying the game was rougher back then and not read into it.
No. It was more pointed than you describe. But I didn't care about it either way. And I never said "self-centred jerk". You chose to read that in.

“There’s only one Theo Fleury,” says the one Theo Fleury, when asked about the Flames’ new diminutive talent. “He has less challenges now than I ever did. I was carrying 250-pound defencemen on my back night after night because of the hooking and holding.”

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/...small-players/

“I love the era I played in. I think I played in the greatest era of talent in the history of the game,” says Fleury, a point-a-game player through 1,084 games. “I was considered one of those guys who had incredible talent, incredible ability. But a guy like Johnny Gaudreau can play in the NHL right now. He couldn’t play in the era that I played in, unless he changed his style of game.”

That’s not a knock on Johnny Hockey, Fleury clarifies; it’s more of an evaluation on how the game has softened. He’s never met the 21-year-old kid from Jersey, hasn’t measured his heart, isn’t certain Gaudreau wouldn’t learn to adapt to the clutch-and-grab tactics Fleury had to battle through.

“But I see how he plays. And I see times when he does have to be physical, it’s difficult for him. I see Johnny Gaudreau as Cliff Ronning. Cliff played that same style of game, and Cliff almost had 1,000 points in the NHL,” Fleury says. Ronning left the NHL with 869 points in 1,137 games.
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Old 07-10-2018, 10:56 AM   #26
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Apart from his comments regarding Conroy and the Flames after his unsuccessful try-out, what has he said that has been so upsetting? Legit question. Following his Twitter he seems to be nothing but a fan and booster for the team, especially #19.

That comment was needless, no doubt. However, this theme of Fleury continuously slamming the Flames seems largely to be myth.
I too would like to see these ''slams'' that seem to be such a black mark on his character. As far as I know, Theo hasn't said anything publicly that has earned him such a reputation. Things far worse are said on CP on a daily basis, given the success of the team since 1989. Plenty of people here are saying he's said/done these things, so let's see some proof.

It wouldn't surprise me if it was more of a personnel issue with some higher ups that isn't being released publicly and is behind closed doors. Still, that shouldn't take away from what he did on the ice. You won't find a Flames' fan anywhere who followed the team during the 90s who didn't love how he played.

I also heard the radio show this morning that talked about him. Apparently there are now 3 tiers to honour former Flames? An honouring ceremony, Forever a Flame, then number retirement? Common.

The guy was the face of the Flames and franchise player before Iggy came along and was the holder of many Flames' record before Iggy broke them. I think he's due to have his number retired, and not some stupid honouring or FaF ceremony.
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Old 07-10-2018, 11:00 AM   #27
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But, what about Kent Nilsson? Can we put both their names on the jersey?
You could just raise two jerseys with the same number, but frankly, Nilsson spent five seasons in Calgary and while he was clearly insanely good at hockey (frankly, one of the more underrated players ever outside of this market), I don't think he comes close to "Jersey Retired" territory.
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Old 07-10-2018, 11:05 AM   #28
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Greatest Flame ever, in my opinion. A proper jersey retirement long overdue.

The only reason I can think of that they haven't done it is due to ownership holding a grudge over his comments at the press conference following the trade to Colorado. I really don't blame him - the Flames sold the trade to the public by saying Theo would not agree to a new contract, whereas he genuinely wanted to stay here and believed that contract negotiations were still in play. The Bremner years were very dark times for this franchise.

Theo has really done a great job of confronting his demons and becoming a positive contributor to the community these past few years, he deserves it.
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Old 07-10-2018, 11:07 AM   #29
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Doesn't deserve to have his jersey retired. No, he was not the 2nd best Flame of all time - Iginla and MacInnis were the two best Flames of all time.


Why don't I want his number retired? He has been terrible as a Flames alumni criticizing the Flames, but more importantly, he was rather a d-bag for a team mate.


Sure, he had substance abuse issues and a horrible story. But he played drunk. Is that being a good team mate? I remember some of his team mates (Roberts? maybe misremembering here) disliking him.



As well, I will forever remember a story in the Herald during his playing days here under coach Brian Sutter. He basically stated something like: "Practice makes me tired. I don't want to practice. I don't need to practice like the rest of my team does" - something like that.


Sorry, but he will never get a vote from me in retiring his number. His number should be in usage. He shouldn't be retired.
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Old 07-10-2018, 11:08 AM   #30
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It wouldn't surprise me if it was more of a personnel issue with some higher ups that isn't being released publicly and is behind closed doors.
Everyone I know who has ever had occasion to interact with Theo Fluery on a professional level had been left with a bad impression of him. I figure their experience probably isn't unique and probably extends to the folk who decide those honors.
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Old 07-10-2018, 11:11 AM   #31
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You could just raise two jerseys with the same number, but frankly, Nilsson spent five seasons in Calgary and while he was clearly insanely good at hockey (frankly, one of the more underrated players ever outside of this market), I don't think he comes close to "Jersey Retired" territory.
6 years with the org, if you count the one in Atlanta (the same amount as Loob and more than Gilmour or Mullen). Lanny and Newy were honoured with 8 years service, so he's not that far off. But I don't disagree with you, and there would be several Flames ahead of Kent on the "to be honoured" list. Iggy, Kipper, Theo, Regher, Roberts and Otto IMO, just because of the years of service (obviously not because they were all better).
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Old 07-10-2018, 11:13 AM   #32
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Most of his criticisms of the Flames proved true didn’t they ( to some extent)

Said they need to trade Regehr for scoring help for Iginla. Said he could outplays Conroy ( who then went on the score zero goals for most the season)

Maybe he wasn’t just a Flames shill who complimented arguably the least successful franchise in he NHL of the past 28 years?

But he was also a jerk nonarguments . But I think his story is so unique they should raise his jersey
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Old 07-10-2018, 11:16 AM   #33
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Should be maybe 3 player numbers retired every 100 years, Fleury was a good player but he wasn't good enough to get his number in the rafters.
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Old 07-10-2018, 11:26 AM   #34
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There are different categories as I see it.

Best player to play for the Flames (for some reasonable period of time)
Best career as a Calgary Flame
Best Calgary Flame of all time

I vote Macinnis as best player to play for the Flames. But this one is very debatable.
I vote Iginla for best career as a flame, Fleury second.
Lanny is best Flame of all time which includes a ton of subjective criteria obviously.

For me, 9, 12 and 14 need to be the retired numbers for the Flames. It just seems so obvious.
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Old 07-10-2018, 11:28 AM   #35
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Should be maybe 3 player numbers retired every 100 years,
Well we're on pace for that so far.
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Old 07-10-2018, 11:30 AM   #36
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Well we're on pace for that so far.
It's about to be three in ~50 years, so ahead of pace.

Actually, that might be part of the issue; they know they're going to have to retire 12 soon anyway.
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Old 07-10-2018, 11:35 AM   #37
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But, what about Kent Nilsson? Can we put both their names on the jersey?
The answer in a big no.

Kent was a player that Gretzky said had more talent than he did but only used it when he felt like it. Drove coaches, especially Badger Bob crazy with his indifferent play and disappearing act in the playoffs. It resulted in Badger Bob asking Cliff Fletcher to trade him as he didn't want him on his team.

It irked me that he had some god given talent but chose not to use it.
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Old 07-10-2018, 11:37 AM   #38
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IMO, Fleury deserves to have his number retired. Not every player says the right things all the time. He was never the pc guy when speaking to the media but he was all heart. A very emotional guy and it served him well. He led the Flames through some dark days. I remember watching his stats in the paper when he was with Salt Lake. He was a phenom. I couldn't believe they weren't calling him up. When they finally did call him up, you couldn't take your eyes off him. He was a point per game player who also racked up the penalty minutes. Theo must have been hell to play against. He was a beauty.

Retire his number already.
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Old 07-10-2018, 11:39 AM   #39
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Paging This Post Is Terrible. How can you say Vernon had character issues and then overcame them but not say the same about Theo? This is an obvious I can't stand this player post.
Vernon grew up. He was a ###### when he first played for the Flames, but he never ran the team down when he left. He grew up to become a good citizen in the other cities he played in, and returned to Calgary to continue this new legacy. Wasn't a mouth piece and wasn't a malcontent.

Fleury, OTOH, was the antithesis of Vernon. Never grew up and continued to slag the Flames every opportunity he got. With Fleury it was never about the team or the city, it was about him, him, and him. Fleury was a great player for a short period of time, but he was a mouth piece and malcontent his entire career. Sadly, Fleury never got past himself and looked at things from the larger perspective. Fleury was a great talent, but he was - still is - of questionable character.

It actually pains me to say all of this because Mike Vernon is my least favorite Flame of all time, yes, even ahead of Fleury in that regard. I have to give Vernon credit as he did become a better person as he matured, which Fleury did not. Like it or not, there is a big community action component to a number retirement for many teams, and Fleury so miserably fails in this regard that a retirement is probably never going to happen. Not until the team is sold anyways.

Last edited by New Era; 07-10-2018 at 12:19 PM. Reason: Crossed a line
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Old 07-10-2018, 11:45 AM   #40
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Vernon grew up. He was a ###### when he first played for the Flames, but he never ran the team down when he left. He grew up to become a good citizen in the other cities he played in, and returned to Calgary to continue this new legacy. Wasn't a mouth piece and wasn't a malcontent.

Fleury, OTOH, was the antithesis of Vernon. Never grew up and continued to slag the Flames every opportunity he got. With Fleury it was never about the team or the city, it was about him, him, and him. Fleury was a great player for a short period of time, but he was a mouth piece and malcontent his entire career. Sadly, Fleury never got past himself and looked at things from the larger perspective. Fleury was a great talent, but he was - still is - a horrible human being.

It actually pains me to say all of this because Mike Vernon is my least favorite Flame of all time, yes, even ahead of Fleury in that regard. I have to give Vernon credit as he did become a better person as he matured, which Fleury did not. Like it or not, there is a big community action component to a number retirement for many teams, and Fleury so miserably fails in this regard that a retirement is probably never going to happen. Not until the team is sold anyways.
Pump the breaks on that level of hyperbole. He has been a champion of healing for addiction and abuse victims, among other causes.
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