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Old 07-10-2018, 07:39 PM   #21
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Compared to other high end signings, this seems pretty reasonable.

Tampa going all in this year? Cap situation looking a bit tough in 19/20, and Point will be getting a big raise to boot.
It's honestly crazy that they may not need to worry about their cap situation if they don't add anyone. Girardi and Coburn come off the books next year, and Callahan the year after. Their money can be sent to extensions and they have the prospects to replace them
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Old 07-10-2018, 07:41 PM   #22
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Kucherov should consider getting a new agent. Between the last contract and this one, he has left millions on the table and Tampa has yet to win jack ####.
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Old 07-10-2018, 07:44 PM   #23
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Because of the tax break those millions he left on the table he essentially didn’t and by taking a less than free market AAV he’s helping his team contend while basically taking home what he would anywhere else with a higher AAV on almost every other team.

No Tampa hasn’t won anything (and I mean in 04 too) but they have played deep into the playoffs 3 of the last 4 years and are an annual contender.
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Old 07-10-2018, 08:28 PM   #24
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We should also not forget that Gaudreau was ineligible for arbitration and also was RFA offer sheet-exhempt when he signed his deal. It was really a fantastic situation for the Flames.
Didn't those also apply to Draisaitl?
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Old 07-10-2018, 08:40 PM   #25
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Didn't those also apply to Draisaitl?
Draisaitl did not have arbitration rights, but I am quite sure he was RFA offer sheet eligible. I vividly recall there being an ongoing concern amongst Oilers fans that he would sign an offer sheet.
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Old 07-10-2018, 09:29 PM   #26
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The Gaudreau deal was really good. But then so are a bunch of the RFA signings from about that time MacKinnon at 6.3. Scheifle at 6.1 Barkov at 5.9 and those are all centers which you pay a premium for. Chia really f### things up when he made the Draisaitl deal. And yes it was because there were rumblings of an offer sheet.
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Old 07-10-2018, 11:22 PM   #27
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Yup, the turning point was Draisaitl, and then it was 'legitimized' by McDavid.

Prior to them everyone was trying to get contracts done in the $6M to $7.5M range. Then Draisaitl gets $8.5M and there was a whole paradigm shift.

The Flames are in fantastic shape now. Our entire top 6 this year (assuming $5m for Lindholm) will be: $30.1M. Yes, Tkachuk will bump it up next year, but it will still be great.

And our top 4 D this year will be $18-20M (depending on whether Hanifin signs a bridge or long-term)

Over the next year or two, Brouwer, Frolik and Stone ($16.3M) will be replaced by kids, and the cost of our goaltending probably goes down next year!

Every time I see someone sign for $8 to $10M, I smile.
Quoted for truth.

It's up to the players and staff to execute now. Treliving has given himself the ability to augment the roster even further if he needs to but let's hope that we can enjoy some results over the next few seasons.
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Old 07-11-2018, 12:01 AM   #28
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The Gaudreau deal was really good. But then so are a bunch of the RFA signings from about that time MacKinnon at 6.3. Scheifle at 6.1 Barkov at 5.9 and those are all centers which you pay a premium for. Chia really f### things up when he made the Draisaitl deal. And yes it was because there were rumblings of an offer sheet.

Gaudreau was a solid deal. He seemed kind of disappointed about it in an interview with Ryan Whitney. I think if he had any kind of negotiating rights at the time he would be substantially better paid right now.

Mackinnon was coming off a 52 point season when he signed. Barkov had a 36 point rookie season, followed by 30 points in 38 games when he signed. Scheifele was coming off a 60 point season.

Draisaitl scored 77. He was going to get more. Guess they should have signed him to 6x6 after his 50 point sophomore season.

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Old 07-11-2018, 12:24 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Samonadreau View Post
The Gaudreau deal was really good. But then so are a bunch of the RFA signings from about that time MacKinnon at 6.3. Scheifle at 6.1 Barkov at 5.9 and those are all centers which you pay a premium for. Chia really f### things up when he made the Draisaitl deal. And yes it was because there were rumblings of an offer sheet.
Would somebody really have offered equal or more than $8.5 for a player living off McDavid? I highly doubt any team with that amount of cap space would take the chance of loosing 4 1st's for this guy.

It's my opinion Chia screwed up by giving MaDavid's $12.5 contract first when he didn't need to
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Old 07-11-2018, 05:01 AM   #30
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Because of the tax break those millions he left on the table he essentially didnít and by taking a less than free market AAV heís helping his team contend while basically taking home what he would anywhere else with a higher AAV on almost every other team.

No Tampa hasnít won anything (and I mean in 04 too) but they have played deep into the playoffs 3 of the last 4 years and are an annual contender.
There was an article that kind of put this myth to bed in the Athletic a while back. In Canada it's possible to get almost the same tax advantages as playing in Texas or Florida. There are a lot.of hoops to jump through but if you have that kind of money you can hire a good accountant and get it done.

From the article:

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the most effective of those strategies is called a Retirement compensation arrangement, or an RCA.

Basically, an RCA is a mechanism to defer paying income taxes for high earners who will suffer a significant drop in revenue as soon as they retire.
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Old 07-11-2018, 06:27 AM   #31
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I can't believe we have Gaudreau at 6.75. He really should be in the 8-9 range.
Johnny's contract did not cover many UFA years, Kucherov's did.

Apples and oranges. You'd have to www what Johnny's next contract is for a fair comparison.
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Old 07-11-2018, 07:20 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Oil Stain View Post
Gaudreau was a solid deal. He seemed kind of disappointed about it in an interview with Ryan Whitney. I think if he had any kind of negotiating rights at the time he would be substantially better paid right now.

Mackinnon was coming off a 52 point season when he signed. Barkov had a 36 point rookie season, followed by 30 points in 38 games when he signed. Scheifele was coming off a 60 point season.

Draisaitl scored 77. He was going to get more. Guess they should have signed him to 6x6 after his 50 point sophomore season.
The problem was playing him on Mcdavids wing in his contract year. Get they went on a run there but it cost them.

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Would somebody really have offered equal or more than $8.5 for a player living off McDavid? I highly doubt any team with that amount of cap space would take the chance of loosing 4 1st's for this guy.

It's my opinion Chia screwed up by giving MaDavid's $12.5 contract first when he didn't need to
I agree its a lot to give up and too much for me. It could haven 2 1sts a 2nd and a 3rd for a 6 x 8.1M too who knows. If your a team like Montreal that has needed a top tier Center for a decade and they believed he was the guy that could be that for them then maybe you go for it. They also could have gotten Draisaitl and kept Sergachyev. Try to stay out if the top 10 picks for the next couple seasons. I do remember rumblings even from the insiders.

Whether or not it would have happenned we will never know. Did Chia need to pay that much to prevent an offer sheet, again who knows but I guarantee the Draisaitl camp leveraged it.

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Old 07-11-2018, 08:03 AM   #33
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Gaudreau was a solid deal. He seemed kind of disappointed about it in an interview with Ryan Whitney. I think if he had any kind of negotiating rights at the time he would be substantially better paid right now.

Mackinnon was coming off a 52 point season when he signed. Barkov had a 36 point rookie season, followed by 30 points in 38 games when he signed. Scheifele was coming off a 60 point season.

Draisaitl scored 77. He was going to get more. Guess they should have signed him to 6x6 after his 50 point sophomore season.
Pastrnak scored 34/70 and got $6.67x6.

Beforehand, the notion was that Draisaitl would get between 6.5 and 7.5:
https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/h...imilar-players
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Old 07-11-2018, 08:17 AM   #34
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There was an article that kind of put this myth to bed in the Athletic a while back. In Canada it's possible to get almost the same tax advantages as playing in Texas or Florida. There are a lot.of hoops to jump through but if you have that kind of money you can hire a good accountant and get it done.



From the article:
Yes, but do similar tax hoops exist to level the playing field in other US markets?
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Old 07-11-2018, 10:19 AM   #35
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Pastrnak scored 34/70 and got $6.67x6.

Beforehand, the notion was that Draisaitl would get between 6.5 and 7.5:
https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/h...imilar-players
Yeah but that was Staples thinking that.....

Pastrnak signed a 6 year deal. So he only got 2 UFA seasons vs 4 for Draisaitl.

Most reasonable fans were hoping for the Tarasenko contract, but it was 2 years later and Draisaitl had a big playoffs.

Draisaitl held all the cards in the negotiation and he certainly didn't leave any money on the table like Kucherov.
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Old 07-11-2018, 10:22 AM   #36
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well those 2 UFA years cost $28M, so... enjoy!
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Old 07-11-2018, 10:43 AM   #37
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...most reasonable fans were hoping for the tarasenko contract, but it was 2 years later and draisaitl had two big games in the playoffs...
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Old 07-11-2018, 10:45 AM   #38
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Yeah but that was Staples thinking that.....

Pastrnak signed a 6 year deal. So he only got 2 UFA seasons vs 4 for Draisaitl.

Most reasonable fans were hoping for the Tarasenko contract, but it was 2 years later and Draisaitl had a big playoffs.

Draisaitl held all the cards in the negotiation and he certainly didn't leave any money on the table like Kucherov.
That's not true at all.

First, I think it's only 3 UFA years acquired. The Preds got 7 years of UFA for RyJo for $8M.

Second, he had no arbitration rights. No one was offer sheeting him because of the inherent limitations. His only "card" was to sit out.

Third, he had no track record as an effective centre. His points were largely on the wing. He needed the Oilers (and McDavid) more than they needed him, IMO.

IMO the Oilers messed up. They needed to sign Leon first. Before McDavid. They needed to tell him they needed a good deal or else they'd have trouble on McDavid's deal.
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Old 07-11-2018, 11:40 AM   #39
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That's not true at all.

First, I think it's only 3 UFA years acquired. The Preds got 7 years of UFA for RyJo for $8M.

Second, he had no arbitration rights. No one was offer sheeting him because of the inherent limitations. His only "card" was to sit out.

Third, he had no track record as an effective centre. His points were largely on the wing. He needed the Oilers (and McDavid) more than they needed him, IMO.

IMO the Oilers messed up. They needed to sign Leon first. Before McDavid. They needed to tell him they needed a good deal or else they'd have trouble on McDavid's deal.
Yeah you are right on 3 UFA years, my bad.

As for center/wing, he still played center a lot. 52 points there in 15/16. And in 16/17 he didn't play on the wing until December and he was still putting up points. Played well at center in the playoffs when called upon.

There's a good argument to be made that the Oilers could have gotten Draisatil cheaper for sure. I just don't see how they could have gotten him signed for something that started with a number smaller than 7.
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Old 07-11-2018, 11:48 AM   #40
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...As for center/wing, he still played center a lot. 52 points there in 15/16. And in 16/17 he didn't play on the wing until December and he was still putting up points...
17 points in his first 24 games in 2016, which pro-rates to 58-points over an 82-games season. That is pretty well on par with his production at centre the previous year, and looks to be in the ballpark of what can be expected for him playing the #2 role behind McDavid. Maybe Oilers fans are okay with this, but I think paying $8.5 m and term for that level of production is a very bad investment.

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There's a good argument to be made that the Oilers could have gotten Draisatil cheaper for sure. I just don't see how they could have gotten him signed for something that started with a number smaller than 7.
The difference between $7.0 m and $8.5 m is cavernous. This is a marginal contract. Period.
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