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Old 07-08-2018, 11:47 AM   #141
Enoch Root
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Good point and it may be fairly evident but why do you think there is such and adjustment period (and it's length)? Dimensions of the rink and the associated tactics?
I think it's due to a strong focus on defensive play.

Young players tend to cheat in order to generate more offense. If you get them focused on defensive responsibilities, and thus not cheating, it takes longer to get the offense going at the NHL level.
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Old 07-08-2018, 11:57 AM   #142
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I could see Treliving bridging Hanifin. With Hanifin it's either 2-3 years around 3M or 6-7 around 5M+ IMO.
Draft pedigree/upside will mean Hanifin and his agent likely won't give up the UFA years cheaply, so I doubt he can get it done for closer to 4M on a deal that eats UFA years.
Lindholm wants term, and given that he has had more years post draft, the upside based on draft pedigree argument is weaker. I would place him around 4.7-5.3M provided we are talking 5 years at least. If I'm Treliving, I'm prepared in this case to go to the higher end if that gets 7 years, but my goal would be less than 5M

My guesses at what they get:

Hanifin 2 years 3M AAV or 6 years 5.2M AAV
Lindholm 5 years 4.8M AAV or 7 years 5.3M AAV
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Old 07-08-2018, 12:12 PM   #143
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Originally Posted by Enoch Root View Post
I think it's due to a strong focus on defensive play.

Young players tend to cheat in order to generate more offense. If you get them focused on defensive responsibilities, and thus not cheating, it takes longer to get the offense going at the NHL level.
In Lindholm's WJC highlights you can really see a high work rate and compete level on defensive plays - he breaks up a lot plays early just by cutting plays off and getting in there. Very laudable.

The scouting reports in his draft season also spoke of dynamic skills (hands, skating) plus great vision so I'm looking forward to seeing that come to the fore.
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Old 07-12-2018, 11:19 AM   #144
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News Update

all arbitration dates
https://www.nhlpa.com/news/1-15186/2...ation-schedule


Flames related

July 23 Brett Kulak
July 27 Mark Jankowski
July 28 David Rittich
July 30 Garnet Hathaway
August 1 Elias Lindholm


could be a busy week for Treliving. On the plus side the latest these players will be signed is 1st week of August.
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Old 07-12-2018, 11:52 AM   #145
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sureLoss: Can they buyout a player prior to any of these arb cases or does that window only open after the final case is decided or the date has passed (whichever comes first)?
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Old 07-12-2018, 11:59 AM   #146
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I think Janko and Lindholm have contracts before their arb dates. HOT TAKE
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Old 07-12-2018, 12:48 PM   #147
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Kulak first up means pressure now to close that deal. What Dylan DeMelo got in San Jose (2 years, 900k AAV) seems a solid comparable.
Glad Lindholm is last, as that is the one RFA that will be a long term deal. Jankowski is a bridge and the others are 1 year deals
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Old 07-12-2018, 01:46 PM   #148
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sureLoss: Can they buyout a player prior to any of these arb cases or does that window only open after the final case is decided or the date has passed (whichever comes first)?
The 2nd buyout window only opens 3 days after the team settle's their last arbitration case or the arbitrator makes an award on the last open arbitration case.

In other words the 2nd buyout window will only open after all Kulak, Hathaway, Jankowski, Lindholm, and Rittich have been signed or walked away from. (Note: the only case that may meet the walk away threshold is probably Lindholm. The other 4 is unlikely their arbitration award will allow the team to walk away.)


For example, Treliving could re-sign Jankowski, Lindholm, Rittich, and Hathaway today and end up having to take the arbitration award for Kulak. In that scenario, the 2nd buyout window would open 3 days after the arbitrator had awarded Kulak a new contract.

Last edited by sureLoss; 07-12-2018 at 01:49 PM.
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Old 07-12-2018, 02:36 PM   #149
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So conceivably July 26 the buyout window opens. Thats the info I was curious about. Thank you!
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Old 07-12-2018, 02:57 PM   #150
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So conceivably July 26 the buyout window opens. Thats the info I was curious about. Thank you!
Or it could happen on the 15th, if the Flames can sign them all today.
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Old 07-13-2018, 08:56 AM   #151
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A buyout of Brouwer while these RFAs are up for arbitration may be tied to the other negotiation: what happens with Hanifin's contract.

If Hanifin is bridged for, let's say, 2 years @ 3M AAV, then Hanifin + Brouwer = 7.5M AAV for 2 years, then Brouwer is replaced by a replacement level forward (1M AAV) and Hanifin gets a long term deal around 6.5M AAV

However, if Hanifin is open to a long term deal, then a buyout needs to happen, and the numbers can work out:
Brouwer buyout = 1.5M AAV (4 years)
Sign Hanifin to a deal in Jones/Ristolainen/Lindholm/Rielly range = 5.3M AAV
Start Mangiapane in the NHL = 705K AAV
= 7.505M AAV this year, then goes up a touch in future years, to keep years 5 & 6 (and 7 if signed that long) in better shape

Essentially, Hanifin bridged + Brouwer = roughly same cost as Hanifin long term, Brouwer bought out and replaced by forward on ELC.
I am looking at recent comparable RFAs, and assuming a bridge comes in at close to 4% of the cap and long term close to 7%. Hanifin isn't at Ristolainen/Jones level at signing, but draft pick range is close and performance is not much of a drop. He is close to Rielly and Lindholm (Hampus that is) and Trouba is a good bridge comparable, and Dumba is a floor (Hanifin better, but no other bridge as close)
Hanifin may want to bet on himself, like Trouba, who forced his way onto a bridge and is now up for big money, but this window coming up at least gives Treliving a shot to see if a long term deal can work for Hanifin, as at least financially, it can work for the Flames

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Old 07-13-2018, 09:49 AM   #152
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I kept thinking that Brouwer buyout is very prohibitive but it's actually not too bad.

instead of 9 mil over two years in regular salary, the buyout cost is 6 mil over 4 years.
1.5 mil cap hit for the next 4 years can be managed.
Saves 3 mil per year for the upcoming season and 19-20, then becomes negative value.

https://www.capfriendly.com/buyout-c...r/troy-brouwer
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Old 07-13-2018, 09:56 AM   #153
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With Brouwer riding in the stampede parade Im unfortunately pretty sure Troy is here to stay this season even though I feel theres no room for him.

Just hope to god hes not used in any sort of PP or TOP9 capacity.
And even then Id sooner give the spot to a young kid.

One can dream though.
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Old 07-13-2018, 10:01 AM   #154
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Or it could happen on the 15th, if the Flames can sign them all today.
Just to confirm I am understanding this correctly: No matter what happens from this point forward, the Flames will have another buyout window, it is just a matter of when this will happen?
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Old 07-13-2018, 10:40 AM   #155
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Yes tkflames, that is correct.
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Old 07-13-2018, 11:16 AM   #156
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With Brouwer riding in the stampede parade I’m unfortunately pretty sure Troy is here to stay this season even though I feel there’s no room for him...
I wouldn't read anything into that.

Brouwer's appearance in the Stampede Parade is not akin to Gaudreau's—Brouwer lives in Calgary, and I expect it is an easy choice for the team to include players who were readily on hand. It's not like the Flames are more committed to Brouwer than they are to Mark Giordano, Sean Monahan, and the numerous other players who have rarely—if ever—attended the Parade.
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Last edited by Textcritic; 07-13-2018 at 11:28 AM.
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Old 07-13-2018, 11:34 AM   #157
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Mike Kelly‏Verified account @MikeKellyNHL
The Calgary Flames appear to be closing in on an extension with RFA, Elias Lindholm. Details being worked on but expectation is 5 or 6 years at around $5M per.
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Old 07-13-2018, 11:34 AM   #158
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Just saw this on twitter...


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Mike Kelly‏Verified account @MikeKellyNHL 12m12 minutes ago

The Calgary Flames appear to be closing in on an extension with RFA, Elias Lindholm. Details being worked on but expectation is 5 or 6 years at around $5M per.
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Old 07-13-2018, 10:22 PM   #159
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Originally Posted by Phaneufenstein View Post
I kept thinking that Brouwer buyout is very prohibitive but it's actually not too bad.

instead of 9 mil over two years in regular salary, the buyout cost is 6 mil over 4 years.
1.5 mil cap hit for the next 4 years can be managed.
Saves 3 mil per year for the upcoming season and 19-20, then becomes negative value.

https://www.capfriendly.com/buyout-c...r/troy-brouwer
That's true.

On the other hand, if they bury Brouwer in the AHL, the cost in cash for those two years is still $9 million, but the cap hit drops to about $7 million. By spending an extra $3m in cash and $1m in cap hit, they get the pain over with in two years instead of four. It's an option I would be seriously considering if I were in their shoes.
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Old 07-13-2018, 11:08 PM   #160
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That's true.

On the other hand, if they bury Brouwer in the AHL, the cost in cash for those two years is still $9 million, but the cap hit drops to about $7 million. By spending an extra $3m in cash and $1m in cap hit, they get the pain over with in two years instead of four. It's an option I would be seriously considering if I were in their shoes.
But by the time you fill his spot there is basically no cap relief, or not enough to do anything with. If the Flames don't need it fine but if they actually want the cap room a buyout (or trade,) is the way to go, otherwise it's basically a wash and he may as well be a 13th forward.

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