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Old 07-09-2018, 09:45 PM   #3701
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Lindstrom was not sub 5’10. You can say the game is changing all you want but being able to win physical battles will always be a major part of a defensemens role. I don’t think Hughes will ever be good at that.
And I don't think he'll need to be. As long as he can get back the puck that's all that matters. And then keep it away from the other team.
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Old 07-09-2018, 09:47 PM   #3702
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As an aside, it's not look the Canucks went off the board with this pick.
According to consensus rankings
https://thehockeywriters.com/2018-nh...nsus-rankings/

He was #5. Getting him at #7 was certainly reasonable.
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Old 07-09-2018, 11:43 PM   #3703
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Look at Troy Stecher, he does a fine job and Quinn Hughes is twice the player he is.

Other small guys like Krug and Spurgeon do fine as well
There are about 6 of them in the league.

I don't think any of them qualify as a bonafide #1 all situations defenceman.

They mostly all have a actual #1 on the team that takes care of the tough minutes and lets them shine (Chara, Suter, Johnson, Ellis has about 3 relief values).
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Old 07-10-2018, 11:01 AM   #3704
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How could you possibly have them rated that highly? Here is the Canucks' prospect chart.
Its not just him

Most team prospect lists have them rated as a top 3-5 prospect group

Benning has done very well drafting
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Old 07-10-2018, 11:03 AM   #3705
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I think I probably would have also taken Dobson or Wahlstrom, but there was a tonne of excitement about Hughes heading into the draft.

I am pretty intrigued by him: not just because of his stature and skill, but also because he is a NCAA player. It is VERY rare for defensemen to play their draft+1 seasons in the NHL. I think there is added pressure for the Canucks to get him into the lineup, and I wonder how this plays out with a kid who is probably—under normal circumstances—a good two years away.

Does he hold off from signing a contract until after his brother is drafted next year? It will be interesting to see what happens in this fairly unique situation..
He wants to sign

Canucks are considering it, i wouldnt mind it, hes already done well in the ncaa, hes showed well against nhlers at world championships

They can shelter his minutes this year, would be better for his development curve, have him working with nhl strength and conditioning guys etc.
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Old 07-10-2018, 11:16 AM   #3706
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Its not just him

Most team prospect lists have them rated as a top 3-5 prospect group

Benning has done very well drafting
I'm not saying it's a bad prospect group. I'm saying that if you have a higher opinion of them than the charitable assessment I listed in that post, you're being pretty optimistic. Again, even really good prospects frequently don't pan out. The likely outcome is that even with the prospects Vancouver has, given what they have in the organization at the NHL level right now, it's not going to be enough. Sure, if every one of those prospects meets or exceeds their potential they'll be good, but that's not realistic. In order to make a "future is bright" assessment, they need another high-end defense prospect to go with Hughes (Juolevi ain't it), and crucially, someone who can become a #1C. So they need to win the lottery.

You have to realize that there are a lot of failed or partially failed rebuilds that involve high picks and blue chip prospects. Consider that Florida based their rebuild around Sasha Barkov, Jonathan Huberdeau and Aaron Ekblad. Those were some elite young players at key positions. Those players actually largely met their potential and were joined by guys like Trochek, and Matheson who exceeded theirs. Everything went more or less to plan, those guys are in their prime... and the team still isn't particularly good. If the Canucks develop the guys they have properly, get an unexpected gem of a d-man out of a late pick and draft Jack Hughes at #1 next season, this rebuild might just work out for them. But that's a lot of "ifs", and it's not a smart bet to happen. It often doesn't.

EDIT: Actually, another good comparison would be the Maple Leafs pre-Auston Matthews.
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Old 07-10-2018, 05:02 PM   #3707
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Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague View Post
I'm not saying it's a bad prospect group. I'm saying that if you have a higher opinion of them than the charitable assessment I listed in that post, you're being pretty optimistic. Again, even really good prospects frequently don't pan out. The likely outcome is that even with the prospects Vancouver has, given what they have in the organization at the NHL level right now, it's not going to be enough. Sure, if every one of those prospects meets or exceeds their potential they'll be good, but that's not realistic. In order to make a "future is bright" assessment, they need another high-end defense prospect to go with Hughes (Juolevi ain't it), and crucially, someone who can become a #1C. So they need to win the lottery.
Your assessment could not be described as charitable - if anything it should be described as overly critical. Boeser as a 60+ point producing winger - he was 5 off that in his rookie year after missing 20 games due to a freak injury.

Pettersson having a realistic probability of being William Nylander and in this post I quoted ignoring his possibility of becoming a first line center.

Hughes having a ceiling of a #2 defenseman... when all indications are that if he progresses he has the talent to be a #1 defenseman. The odds are that his size will hold him back somewhat but he has more potential than you give credit for.

Then there is Demko who you say is at the same level as Parsons - a prospect who needs two good years to get to the level of Demko right now and unfortunately for the Flames, a prospect who failed to distinguish himself at the AHL or ECHL level. Not saying the potential isn't there but there has to be some concern.

Every prospect group has its holes, but when I look at your assessment it looks like an overly pessimistic assessment of a rival teams prospects more than a charitable one.


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You have to realize that there are a lot of failed or partially failed rebuilds that involve high picks and blue chip prospects. Consider that Florida based their rebuild around Sasha Barkov, Jonathan Huberdeau and Aaron Ekblad. Those were some elite young players at key positions. Those players actually largely met their potential and were joined by guys like Trochek, and Matheson who exceeded theirs. Everything went more or less to plan, those guys are in their prime... and the team still isn't particularly good. If the Canucks develop the guys they have properly, get an unexpected gem of a d-man out of a late pick and draft Jack Hughes at #1 next season, this rebuild might just work out for them. But that's a lot of "ifs", and it's not a smart bet to happen. It often doesn't.

EDIT: Actually, another good comparison would be the Maple Leafs pre-Auston Matthews.
Florida is a really good young team - they need a goaltender badly though as Luongo is too old to be relied on as a number one. They have James Reimer as a number 1 for large portions of the season.
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Old 07-11-2018, 08:50 AM   #3708
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Your assessment could not be described as charitable - if anything it should be described as overly critical. Boeser as a 60+ point producing winger - he was 5 off that in his rookie year after missing 20 games due to a freak injury.
Yes. Often, a rookie player - especially a sniper like Boeser - has no gameplan developed for him, and can take opponents by a bit of surprise as to how he gets clean shots off. Before he got hurt, he'd slowed down a bit towards the end of the season. I suspect if he had finished the year, he'd have ended up with around 65 points. He's also now basically all the Canucks have as a power play weapon, so will obviously be keyed on. Assuming his injury doesn't hamper him, I'd expect only a moderate increase from him if any, hence 60-70 points. If he scores 68, that wouldn't be a disappointing year, and would almost certainly lead the Canucks.

EDIT: If we're looking for a comparison production-wise, I see him as a lot like Bobby Ryan, who was a consistent 30 goal guy through his career in Anaheim and hit 70 points exactly once. He probably would have been slightly higher-scoring if he wasn't playing behind Getzlaf-Perry, and I suspect Boeser will benefit from being "the guy" in that way to the tune of ~10 points on average.
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Pettersson having a realistic probability of being William Nylander and in this post I quoted ignoring his possibility of becoming a first line center.
William Nylander is a first line quality winger. That's nothing to sneer at. However, what you describe is a ceiling - realistic probability is looking at the floor and ceiling and taking a best bet. A solid first line winger is a pretty high best bet for a guy with 0 NHL games. And as far as I know, Petterson played 0 games as a center in the SHL (unlike Nylander). Why would you think he could switch to that position in the NHL successfully? I mean, okay, it's not impossible, but it's unlikely.
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Hughes having a ceiling of a #2 defenseman... when all indications are that if he progresses he has the talent to be a #1 defenseman.
Depends what you think a #1 defenseman is. If you mean a top 31 defenseman in the league, yes, agreed completely. If you mean a guy on the level of Karlsson, Hedman, Doughty, Burns etc, no. That's Rasmus Dahlin's ceiling. Like I said, what the Canucks should be hoping for from Hughes is a somewhat smaller somewhat less effective version of Duncan Keith. That'd be a big win from that pick.
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Then there is Demko who you say is at the same level as Parsons - a prospect who needs two good years to get to the level of Demko right now and unfortunately for the Flames, a prospect who failed to distinguish himself at the AHL or ECHL level. Not saying the potential isn't there but there has to be some concern.
Parsons is two years younger than Demko, so it's not an exact comparison, but Demko's first year in the AHL - especially his first half of a year - was awful. Their talent and status as projected starters is roughly equal. If you want to give the nod to Demko as a better asset, go ahead, but it's not a night and day difference.
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Every prospect group has its holes, but when I look at your assessment it looks like an overly pessimistic assessment of a rival teams prospects more than a charitable one.
Given what you're complaining about above, I can only guess that you assume Boeser will be a point per game player, Petterson will be a #1C, Hughes will be an all-star and Demko will be a Vezina candidate. Any one of those predictions is incredibly optimistic. So, all in all, I think you're the one who's assessing these prospects incorrectly.
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Florida is a really good young team - they need a goaltender badly though as Luongo is too old to be relied on as a number one. They have James Reimer as a number 1 for large portions of the season.
Silly statement. Reimer had a .913 in 44 games, which is about league average for most seasons. Luongo had a .929 in 35. Team save percentage was .914 - which was tied for 6th in the league. Goaltending was not a major problem for the Panthers last year at all. The problem is that their elite, blue chip prospects have now reached their prime, and they're good (or in Barkov's case, great), but not good enough to make the team more than mediocre in just about every category and game state.
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Old 07-11-2018, 09:55 AM   #3709
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Florida's problem is their gm gave away multiple top 6 players because the analytics druven regime he took over from liked them

Their 2nd half of the year showed a ton of promise as well, i would say most people view them as a team very much on the rise
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Old 07-11-2018, 10:29 AM   #3710
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Yes. Often, a rookie player - especially a sniper like Boeser - has no gameplan developed for him, and can take opponents by a bit of surprise as to how he gets clean shots off. Before he got hurt, he'd slowed down a bit towards the end of the season. I suspect if he had finished the year, he'd have ended up with around 65 points. He's also now basically all the Canucks have as a power play weapon, so will obviously be keyed on. Assuming his injury doesn't hamper him, I'd expect only a moderate increase from him if any, hence 60-70 points. If he scores 68, that wouldn't be a disappointing year, and would almost certainly lead the Canucks...
This is true. In 2017 Boeser was on a +1 pts/gp pace, and then finished his season with 8G and 17 pts in his last 26 games. But what is really telling is that through December he was shooting at an impossible 21.0%(!), which then fell precipitously to 10.1% in the second half. I have already noted that Boeser scored a tonne on the powerplay while playing with the Sedins. With them no longer in the lineup this year Vancouver's top-ten powerplay is going to suffer badly, and Boeser is the one player in that lineup poised to feel it most emphatically. I don't think there will be a single player on the Canucks's roster who will hit 60 pts this season, and won't be surprised if only one or two barely cracks 50.
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Old 07-11-2018, 12:11 PM   #3711
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Counter to this thread and the focus of it, there's a lot of prospects I like on the Canucks with Huges topping the list. I don't think he will get bullied in his own zone because indeed he will simply have the puck and does such a good job of escaping traffic. He is the new breed of dman that moves the puck at an elite level. He is an excellent piece for the club.
Still work to do but Boeser, Petterson and Hughes are a great trio to build around.
I agree. There are some nice looking building blocks and it shows Benning does have a good handle on amateur scouting. It's the rest of the GM job he hasn't been great at. Seems like he would make for a much better AGM than GM.
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Old 07-11-2018, 12:22 PM   #3712
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I agree. There are some nice looking building blocks and it shows Benning does have a good handle on amateur scouting. It's the rest of the GM job he hasn't been great at. Seems like he would make for a much better AGM than GM.
Or maybe Benning would be better off going back to being a scout.
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Old 07-11-2018, 01:24 PM   #3713
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This is true. In 2017 Boeser was on a +1 pts/gp pace, and then finished his season with 8G and 17 pts in his last 26 games.

Boeser's drop off coincided with the wrist injury he just had surgery for a couple years ago acting up. He is saying it's good now but that is a very real cause for concern if it keeps popping up.
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Old 07-12-2018, 01:57 AM   #3714
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So apparently the NHL was being a bunch of meanies when they made the Canucks' schedule.

http://dailyhive.com/vancouver/canuc...-schedule-2018
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Old 07-12-2018, 02:02 AM   #3715
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So apparently the NHL was being a bunch of meanies when they made the Canucks' schedule.

http://dailyhive.com/vancouver/canuc...-schedule-2018
Honestly, the fact that there's a 15 game difference between Edmonton getting 18 tired teams vs VAN and COL's 3 is ridiculous.
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Old 07-12-2018, 02:38 AM   #3716
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Honestly, the fact that there's a 15 game difference between Edmonton getting 18 tired teams vs VAN and COL's 3 is ridiculous.
Yeah, it's pretty stupid but I can't say I'm shocked. I don't know why the league can't do a better job spreading out the schedule evenly when teams go on a Western Conference road trip.
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Old 07-12-2018, 06:09 AM   #3717
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Honestly, the fact that there's a 15 game difference between Edmonton getting 18 tired teams vs VAN and COL's 3 is ridiculous.
Completely agree however the contrarian view would be that this helps the Canucks build up the losses and slide closer to the #1 pick while maintaining plausible deniability.
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Old 07-12-2018, 07:11 AM   #3718
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Completely agree however the contrarian view would be that this helps the Canucks build up the losses and slide closer to the #1 pick while maintaining plausible deniability.
This is what I was going to say. If the Canucks were a playoff contender this would be an awful schedule and I wouldn't blame anyone in Vancouver for being sour especially seeing the Oilers got another creampuff schedule making it 2/3 years with the Oilers getting the most tired teams. Given the Canucks need to draft top 3 this actually helps them achieve that so I would be pretty happy as a fan.
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Old 07-12-2018, 11:04 PM   #3719
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We dont need no help losing thank you very much

Can do enough of that all on our own
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Old 07-12-2018, 11:26 PM   #3720
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The bad schedule is kind of on the management team for not getting in the ear of the NHL. I remember I read that Gillis use to be on top of that and the Canucks fared much better schedule wise when he was around.

Or maybe like others said, the Canucks don't care because they want Jack Hughes. It's a perfect storm for them in 2019 for prospects, they have Calder contender in Petterson, they have the WJC, they have the draft. All they need to do is get the number 1 pick.
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