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Old 11-09-2021, 08:58 AM   #1281
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No, they really didn't. The prequels will forever remain terrible films IMO. A couple of years ago the sci-fi channel was running a SW marathon and I watched them for the first time in forever, and all three of them were just as god-awful as I remembered. The only redeeming qualities of those flicks are Liam Neeson and Ewan McGregor.

I still really like ROTS, I think its gets a bad name. Ewan and Liam and Ian were exceptional performances.



Still love the battle of Coruscant at the start of ROTS, but like I mentioned it should have been two movies instead of one.
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Old 11-09-2021, 09:26 AM   #1282
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It really seems that it lends itself to a TV series more then a movie. At least to me. Also Disney has ordered a Maul series.



I love that they're exploring these topics. But what made Mandalorian special was what we talked about here. He wasn't an established character. Just like Bad Batch was great because it went against the uniformity of the Clones.



I still think that they should do an Old Republic trilogy of movies. A time when Jedi had a huge battery backpack connected to their lightsabers by a cord and the Sith were actually not the true bad guys. The Jedi were.
They have hovered over this story line sooooo many times without actually delving into it. I am hopeful that there is a future ark for Ahsoka in this vein in the legendarium.

The jedi, are at the core, a fascist hegemony. They're just a "peaceful" one. But disparate thought is extremely discouraged, there's a fanatical level of pride (and all the negatives associated with that) about the non-dark side of the force (never referred to as a side, but clearly it is...), they are absolutely intolerant of other (non-aligned) beings accessing their source of power, and they crush resistance to their order mercilessly.
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Old 11-09-2021, 10:13 AM   #1283
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I think saying the Jedi are peaceful isn't quite right, and their whole peaceful contemplation of the Force really only happened recently in terms of galactic history.

I know its Legends, but basically

The first Jedi Schism happened when some Jedi said, hey we're not studying all aspects of the force and we found a way to increase personal power, we'd like to start a school and study it peacefully while still living up to the Jedi ideas. The Jedi response . . . That's hearsay and started a war and wiped out the Dark Jedi.

The second schism was pretty much the same, Jedi that were didn't feel that they were studying all aspects of the Force. So the Jedi declared holy war wiped out most of them, then banished a few who eventually found Korriban and conquored the Sith species. They focused on Empire building and forgot about the Republic and Jedi, and the way back to the Republic. Eventually they recovered that and invaded. Were beaten back by the Republic and the Jedi convinced the Republic to declare a war of genocide and killed every Sith Man, woman and child that they could find and bombed Korriban and its great temples and Sith history out of existence.

A few Sith escaped and settled on Droumand Kaas, this is where the Sith made it a core tenant that they would wipe out the Jedi in the name of Revenge.

Revan and Malik were Jedi who got involved in the Mandalorian War lead a almost religious war as Jedi against the Mandalorians and lured them into a trap and used a planet killing weapon to kill them all.

The Sith came back from that and tried to exterminate the Jedi, and failed.

The whole Sith Empire Republic War happened. Even though the Sith declared a cease fire when they sacked Corsucant and bombed the Jedi Temple. The Jedi broke the cease fire leading to a greater war.

We later had a war between the brother hood of darkness and the Jedi. The Jedi decided to recruit and arm child soldiers to fight in the war. The war lead to trillions of innocent civilian deaths as the Jedi and Sith were fighting their religious war and didn't care about non force users.

The Ruusan reformation came along. The Jedi lost their standing in the Republic Military and the Republic Military vanished.

Bane created the rule of two with Darth Zannah. He was patient and cunning and content to hide in the shadows. The Jedi learned that a Sith survived, and instead of trying to redeem Bane or capture him, they went after him with murder in their eyes. They thought they killed him, instead they unknowingly murdered a clearly wounded innocent man (Zannah's brother). Declare victory.

However the Jedi continued to conscript Children, and in their arrogance continued to go out on campaigns to basically reform the galaxy as they wanted it to be.

When Anakin said in his mind the Jedi were evil . . . from a certain point of view (see what I did there) he was right. The Jedi were the cause of it all, promoted genocide, murdered, recruited child soldiers, caused mass casualties among non force users and didn't care because they continually hide behind prophecy and the will of the force that they interpret themselves.

Palpatine did the galaxy a favor by wiping them out. to me though the whole bringing balance to the force should have been no Jedi and no Sith.


Palpatine also used the truth as a weapon, in the opera house scene he nailed the Jedi in every sense.


The Jedi and Sith have identical goals, peace and justice. The Sith just have the radical add on that the strong should rule the non force users to reach this goal. While the Jedi flounder around in a misguided series of campaigns that lead to nothing.



He was also right, as much as the Jedi talk about not having fear or anger. The Jedi were terrified of losing their power and wealth and sense of entitlement that they were the interpreters and defenders of what they thing the Republic should be.
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Old 11-09-2021, 10:23 AM   #1284
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When are Star Wars fans going to accept that Star Wars was good in the 70s and 80s and just let that be that? I liked Rogue One, but with the quantity of films they've released since the late 90s, it makes sense they would accidentally make a decent one.

It's mediocre sci-fi. There are way better movies and stories. That's okay. I feel like some people are looking for a depth and quality that just isn't there and probably never was.
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Old 11-09-2021, 10:24 AM   #1285
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When are Star Wars fans going to accept that Star Wars was good in the 70s and 80s and just let that be that? I liked Rogue One, but with the quantity of films they've released since the late 90s, it makes sense they would accidentally make a decent one.

It's mediocre sci-fi. There are way better movies and stories. That's okay. I feel like some people are looking for a depth and quality that just isn't there and probably never was.
Every so often you do get a treat though, like The Mandalorian. I've given up on trying to follow everything, there is so much mediocre content not worth consuming.
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Old 11-09-2021, 10:25 AM   #1286
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I would say Clone Wars, Bad Batch and Rebels as well were all really good series.
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Old 11-09-2021, 10:36 AM   #1287
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There was a gap between The Empire Strikes back and The Mandalorian where nothing great was created under the brand. There were a few moments of 'very good' but never great.
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Old 11-09-2021, 10:44 AM   #1288
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When are Star Wars fans going to accept that Star Wars was good in the 70s and 80s and just let that be that? I liked Rogue One, but with the quantity of films they've released since the late 90s, it makes sense they would accidentally make a decent one.
That's what I want from Rogue Squadron, give me that Rogue One space combat goodness and flesh out characters we haven't really seen much of.
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Old 11-09-2021, 10:47 AM   #1289
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I think that TFA was ok, it was a basic reboot of ANH, and they weren't even subtle about it.



I just don't understand how they wouldn't have laid out the whole trilogy, a work book that directors would get the story beat on. Instead we got a mess of a second movie that completely ignored the first movie, and just wrecked any chance of a coherant storyline.



For its warts, the PT, had a coherent story and if you look at the major beats. Obiwan's ascension, Skywalkers fall, Palpatines rise, the end of the Jedi, was a cool idea. There were a lot of poor choices. Having Anakin as a 9 year old was one, the clumsy love story in AOTC was another. I still think they should have Harry Potter'd ROTS and made it two movies.
I think they likely had a story for the whole trilogy, but Johnson chose to throw that out the window. Luke throwing the light sabre away was probably an inside joke about that.

My guess is that the overall storyline wasn't too far off from what we got. It was always the intention to have the Emperor return, after turning both Rey and Kylo to the dark side. When JJ Abrams talks about not having a plan, he means that the details weren't scripted yet on how to get to the end.

The original plan is actually not a horrible idea. It could have played out with Rey and Kylo joining forces and taking over the dark side by defeating Snoke together. Basically, giving into their anger and making the choice that Luke was unwilling to make. Then they find out they've been manipulated by the Emperor the whole time, and one of them turn back towards the light. This isn't all that much different than what we got, but it was all crammed into one movie.

It would have also been great if Kylo had to kill Rey at the end, who couldn't be convinced to make the right choice. That would have been a great plot twist.

Either way, I think it's likely that Abrahms would have botched the whole thing too. The way he portrayed the Emperor and the force powers in RoS made me think he didn't really understand Star Wars either.
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Old 11-09-2021, 11:10 AM   #1290
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There was a gap between The Empire Strikes back and The Mandalorian where nothing great was created under the brand. There were a few moments of 'very good' but never great.
ESB and Mandalorian are very high standards IMO. Between those two, there was lots of high quality stuff, just not to the standard of those two, but what percentage of media is to that standard? Rogue One for example is great, but not as good as ESB.

We really needed to have things fall to the lows of the new trilogy to finally get something like the Mandalorian going. Without Kennedy falling on her face with TLJ, she would have mucked up all future SW projects. Without having TLJ horribly fail in the way it did, there's no way Disney would have given Favreau free reign to make the Mandalorian the way he wanted to.
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Old 11-09-2021, 11:20 AM   #1291
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I mean how are Filoni and Favreau not in charge of everything SW yet? Everything they do is gold, loved by new fans and old fans.
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Old 11-09-2021, 11:28 AM   #1292
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Either way, I think it's likely that Abrahms would have botched the whole thing too. The way he portrayed the Emperor and the force powers in RoS made me think he didn't really understand Star Wars either.
Almost certainly. You get these well known directors who claim to be fans of a franchise but proceed to muck it up, so I just assume they were lying or they were so hands-off in the production that they lose the plot. M. Night Shymalan said he was a huge fan of Avatar: The Last Airbender (he even wrote the forward for the ATLA art books) and then he pumped out an absolutely terrible live action adaptation that any fan of the original show could realize was hot garbage. How does that happen?

I guess at this point I'll take any director or producer claiming they're a huge fan of the show they're working on as a big red flag.
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Old 11-09-2021, 11:42 AM   #1293
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Almost certainly. You get these well known directors who claim to be fans of a franchise but proceed to muck it up, so I just assume they were lying or they were so hands-off in the production that they lose the plot. M. Night Shymalan said he was a huge fan of Avatar: The Last Airbender (he even wrote the forward for the ATLA art books) and then he pumped out an absolutely terrible live action adaptation that any fan of the original show could realize was hot garbage. How does that happen?

I guess at this point I'll take any director or producer claiming they're a huge fan of the show they're working on as a big red flag.
I just don't get how someone who is a basic fan of film watches the Emperor in RotJ and thinks....wow do you know what would be missing from this....if the Emperor came back from the dead and had even more powerful lightning powers. The ROTJ had relatively simple force powers and relied on well crafted storylines to build tension in that final scene.

At the end of the day, Michael Bay could have directed RoS and had a similar result. I know...we'll just take everything from the original trilogy and make it louder....and more lens flare!

JJ Abrams is just not that good at what he does. He struck gold on MI3, due a great Philip Seymour Hoffman performance, and Star Trek had a bunch of things all come together that he was unable to recreate.
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Old 11-09-2021, 12:09 PM   #1294
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I mean how are Filoni and Favreau not in charge of everything SW yet? Everything they do is gold, loved by new fans and old fans.

Fixing Star Wars is actually a super easy, 2-step process:

1. Fire Kathleen Kennedy and everyone hired by Kathleen Kennedy
2. Cut Filoni and Favreau a blank cheque. You don't even have to tell them to make something good, they actually want to make something good.
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Old 11-09-2021, 12:28 PM   #1295
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I just don't get how someone who is a basic fan of film watches the Emperor in RotJ and thinks....wow do you know what would be missing from this....if the Emperor came back from the dead and had even more powerful lightning powers. The ROTJ had relatively simple force powers and relied on well crafted storylines to build tension in that final scene.
This a million times. I love Ian and I loved the portrayal of Palpatine/Sidious in the first 6 movies.

But that portrayal in ROS was just awful and it wasn't Ian's fault. The whole premise of the sacrifice was absolutely dumb and made zero sense. The Sith don't sacrifice, the Sith fear death over everything else as the loss of power.

Then he shoots a mega lightning storm into space debilitating or destroying a massive fleet. Then his lightning can't get past Ray's lightsabre. Oh and who knew a crucifix duel lightsabre move would destroy the strongest force user in the Galaxy.

There's a reason why I firmly believe that Palpatine was not in the original trilogy as the big bad of the series. Because it was bat#### stupid, and it was a panicked response in massive fan service to Star Wars fans that crapped over TLJ.

And yeah to add on JJ took a serious shot at Rian with the whole "A Jedi weapon deserves more respect."

You can tell by the way in the novel TFA that Snoke was the long term villain in the series. When they describe his backstory, he was a individual force user from the unknown region who had crossed path's with Skywalker. He wasn't a strandcast puppet created in a vat.

The third movie had a panicked "I can fix this vibe" with a ending that was more "Thank god this is over" as opposed to "what a great way to end the Skywalker saga".


I still think that if they had guts, the shadow behind the throne occupied by Snoke and the real big bad in the series should have been Luke who realized that the Galaxy had become a crappy place and he wanted to fix it so badly that he decided the only way to do that was to rule. Now you have a logical reason for Ben's fall, You have a really strong villain pair, and in the end you can redeem Ben of kill him off as you choose and it makes sense.
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Old 11-10-2021, 01:15 AM   #1296
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When are Star Wars fans going to accept that Star Wars was good in the 70s and 80s and just let that be that? I liked Rogue One, but with the quantity of films they've released since the late 90s, it makes sense they would accidentally make a decent one.

It's mediocre sci-fi. There are way better movies and stories. That's okay. I feel like some people are looking for a depth and quality that just isn't there and probably never was.
Rots, decent.
The Force Awakens, decent.
Rogue one, good.
Solo, fun.
Mandalorian, great.

Honestly, the start of these new live action series has the seeds to become something truly great and build off the best parts of the originals and prequels while capturing the essence of them, which is what they're clearly aimed at doing.

The franchise is ultimately being watered down with these recent features, yes. And that's sad. But mando has shown me that there is still magic in this universe that can be brought to the screen.

When you can make middle aged guys everywhere sob like babies, you're doing something right.

I do think the ten or so projects planned is too many, but exploring Obi Wan and Vader between the trilogies and the Mando timeline feel well worth while and I am more intrigued by those projects than most anything else coming out.

Fandom took a hit after eps 7-9, but it is slowly being re-discovered through the live action series.
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Old 11-11-2021, 12:09 PM   #1297
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Concept art from Kenobi. Bring on the Inquisitors, bring back the Grand Inquisitor.


https://twitter.com/user/status/1458864362261786627
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Old 11-12-2021, 07:58 PM   #1298
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I thought I would do a review as I read through some of my old Star Wars Legacy stuff, I'll put it in Spoiler tags so those that don't want to see a wall of text. But I want to cover the good, the bad and ugly of the Star Wars Legacy series.


Spoiler!
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Old 11-12-2021, 07:59 PM   #1299
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I thought I would do a review as I read through some of my old Star Wars Legacy stuff, I'll put it in Spoiler tags so those that don't want to see a wall of text. But I want to cover the good, the bad and ugly of the Star Wars Legacy series.


Spoiler!
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Old 11-20-2021, 05:05 AM   #1300
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Sabine has been cast for the Ahsoka series...

https://twitter.com/user/status/1461817812192800770


Shooting starts in the new year, which means the series likely won't debut until after Mando Season 3, probably over a year away.
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